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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #1161
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The disadvantage would be to waterboard. Largely torture is best for getting confessions, from weven the innocent, but not for information gathering. Torture didn't get us the information. More traditioanl forms of interrogation and work did.
    You think we waterboarded him for confessions?
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-06-11 at 07:06 PM.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Oh, and your opinion is supposed to override the opinion of experts and the law?

    [B]The United States has enacted statutes prohibiting torture[/B] and cruel or inhuman treatment. It is these statutes which make waterboarding illegal.[22] The four principal statutes which Congress has adopted to implement the provisions of the foregoing treaties are the Torture Act,[23] the War Crimes Act,[24],and the laws entitled “Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment of Persons Under Custody or Control of the United States Government”[25] and “Additional Prohibition on Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.”[26] The first two statutes are criminal laws while the latter two statutes extend civil rights to any person in the custody of the United States anywhere in the world.

    Waterboarding is Illegal - Washington University Law Review
    And the Washington University Law Review has replaced the Supreme Court?

    That is news!

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The disadvantage would be to waterboard. Largely torture is best for getting confessions, from weven the innocent, but not for information gathering. Torture didn't get us the information. More traditioanl forms of interrogation and work did.
    You do not understand the concept of waterboarding at all, despite it being explained many times.

    Here's the most recent clip.

    Marc Thiessen Tells How Enhanced Interrogation Helped Find Bin Laden

  4. #1164
    Sage

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    yes, that IS a not subtle distinction that's completely lost on the sydney crowd

    the purpose of waterboarding is NOT to illicit info, but instead it intends to "break the spirit"

    which is exactly what the cia's inspector general reported happened to langley's "preeminent source on aq," khalid sheikh muhammad, AS RELEASED BY ERIC HOLDER'S DOJ on the monday preceding august 29, 2009

    ubl was ASSASSINATED, aesops

    assassination's ok, but wall slamming is not?

    fine by me, whatever pleases your piper

    but most americans are very grateful to president obama for not dismantling the methodologies he inherited from his predecessor, keeping gitmo, detaining, wiretapping...

    despite his best efforts

    U-S-A!

  5. #1165
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    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You think we waterboarded him for confessions?
    I don't think that BR thinks that. I think that difference is a part of his point.
    I may be wrong.

  6. #1166
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Well I hope the law rules that the CIA can waterboard terrorists in order to protect the American people.
    What I provided was just to point out that what the DoJ signed off on was different than what happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If they cant it puts them at a huge disadvantage in the WOT, and the terrorists know it.
    I don't think that missing out on a technique of questionable value counts as a "huge" disadvantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The US has to make a decision whether it is serious in this WOT or not and what sort of value they would place on American lives versus that of the terrorists.
    You think we have been remiss on these points I take it. Waging war for ten years doesn't count? Why do you hate America? ;) j/k j/k
    I may be wrong.

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    Am I the only one reading this report?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    and tho ghul and al libi were not waterboarded, they were eit'd
    one of the sources linked above says that al libi was food deprived and stripped naked because he loved to eat and he was personally very modest
    FYI, those techniques are NOT EITs.

    section 63
    The DCI Interrogation Guidelines define "standard interrogation techniques" as techniques that do not incorporate significant physical or psychological pressure. These techniques include, but are not limited to, all lawful forms of questioning employed by U.S. law enforcement and military interrogation personnel. Among standard interrogation techniques are the use of isolation, sleep deprivation not to exceed 72 hours, reduced caloric intake (so long as the amount is calculated to maintain the general health of the detainee), deprivation of reading material, use of loud music or white noise (at a decibel level calculated to avoid damage to the detainee's hearing), the use of diapers for limited periods (generally not to exceed 72 hours), [] and moderate psychologicial pressure.

    emphasis added
    I may be wrong.

  8. #1168
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    Re: Am I the only one reading this report?

    thanks

    the sources say libi was stripped and starved in addition to eit's

    they say he was not waterboarded

    there appears little doubt that DETENTION and GITMO and WIRETAPPING greatly facilitated this GET

    as well as eit's---the preeminent source was "transformed," "reversed," in the extremely rough month after his capture, according to the report holder made public on the monday before aug 29

    says wapo, leastaways

    langley did a lotta legwork, it appears, before our seals took over

  9. #1169
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Was there a firefight? Makes a difference. Still, that would not be equl to our enemy, just closer than i prefer (as I said), and not equal to torture and other more long lasting and invasive efforts.

    As for justification, I really haven't commented on that much at all. The conversation has been on two fronts: 1) is he really dead (deathers) and 2) Did torture get the information and is torture justified. I have not entered into the deadly force conversation, if there has even been one, at all.

    However, I would say it would depend on what happened. If they went with no other intent than to assisinate hime, then I would agree that is wrong. If they went in to get him and in the course of a firefight killed him, I would have no real problem with that.
    They found guns and they found computers and other info. that has proof of other attacks they were planning on us. So I could care less if there was no firefight. They were threats and we took em out.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I don't think that missing out on a technique of questionable value counts as a "huge" disadvantage.
    Certainly it is. We know that KSM didn't want to cooperate at all before he was waterboarded and in fact assumed he could get a lawyer. And now what high ranking Al Qaeda members has the BHO Administration captured since he took office and what information have they been able to act on? Nothing.


    You think we have been remiss on these points I take it. Waging war for ten years doesn't count? Why do you hate America? j/k j/k
    As a matter of fact I'm quite prepared to defend America and have frequently done so, especially against your former European Allies.. But America also has to learn to defend itself, and by whatever means necessary.(serious, serious)

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