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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #1131
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    When you are a former Sec Def, you don't have to provide evidence. If Obama said EIT works, you think Boo would question it? Of course not.
    yes you do. Rumsfeld once said absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. What was lost on many is absence of evidence isn't evidence either. Making claims without support is useless, meaningless.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Saying so is not evidence. Seriously. Each time they've tried to give an example it has proven false. They said, but it wasn't true. You need more than they said so. You need to show that they what they say is actually true. Example. Cheney said torture of KSM proveded intel stopped the plot for a second 9/11. Trouble with that was that we stopped the plot before we even captured KSM. Today some are saying we got the intel that led to the death of OBL, yet that is possible as we stopped those techniques long before we got the intel.

    because of this track record of failing to support what they say, there is no reason to accept claims that torture gave us anything, let alone anything we couldn't have gotten by other means.
    That's about what I thought your position would be. No matter what any member of the government says about waterboarding, and the positive results, you are not going to believe them.

    So why waste my time asking for verification of what was said?

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If they went with no other intent than to assisinate (sic) him, then I would agree that is wrong. If they went in to get him and in the course of a firefight killed him, I would have no real problem with that.
    you don't know THE NEWS?

    i guess it hasn't been published yet in new south wales

    oh well

    today: News from The Associated Press

    The commandos encountered gunshots from only one man, whom they quickly killed, before sweeping the house and shooting others, who were unarmed, a senior defense official said in the latest account.

  4. #1134
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Saying so is not evidence. Seriously. Each time they've tried to give an example it has proven false. They said, but it wasn't true. You need more than they said so.
    It really depends on the who.Often, politicos et al will use technicalities and negative pregnants to say something in the "strongest" way that they can w/o crossing the line into falsehood. And, what people say someone says isn't always the same as what was said. It's not uncommon to find that a headline (or fellow DPer) gets it wrong.
    So, imho, the who and the what are of particular importance.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Making claims without support is useless, meaningless.
    says the serious solon whose ratio of posts to links is a thousand to three

    and those three are---wik, jon stewart and the SYDNEY MORNING HERALD

    LOL!

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's about what I thought your position would be. No matter what any member of the government says about waterboarding, and the positive results, you are not going to believe them.

    So why waste my time asking for verification of what was said?

    Verification isn't that someone says so. it is what evidence do they present with their claim. Those who used torture have an inherent need to claim its effectiveness. Same could be true of those who believe the litature on the subject. But, if you claim the affirmative, you should be able to show actual, tangiable evidence that can be confirmed. I gave two examples where what was claimed could not be true. Specific and verifiable. Can you do the same?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It really depends on the who.Often, politicos et al will use technicalities and negative pregnants to say something in the "strongest" way that they can w/o crossing the line into falsehood. And, what people say someone says isn't always the same as what was said. It's not uncommon to find that a headline (or fellow DPer) gets it wrong.
    So, imho, the who and the what are of particular importance.
    I understand what you're saying, and certianly they can be tricky with the language. And I often think they do just that to try and present the impression that torture was more successful than it was. And sometimes, they just lie. It happens.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Harrington is a serial complainer against everything the military does and will always have a ready audience from the international Left and America's enemies.
    The classic fallacy. . .

    Description of Ad Hominem

    Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

    An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

    Person A makes claim X.
    Person B makes an attack on person A.
    Therefore A's claim is false.

    Fallacy: Ad Hominem

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's about what I thought your position would be. No matter what any member of the government says about waterboarding, and the positive results, you are not going to believe them.
    The government is not an authoritative source. An authority is an individual professionally trained in the relevant area who is not under any political pressure to skew his assertions.

    An professor, a scholar, an ex-military interrogator are all examples of such sources. A politician or someone working for one (i. e. Rumsfeld) is not.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Looks like Usama Bin Laden is dead as well lol.

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