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Thread: Osama Bin Laden is dead

  1. #1061
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, I have. But the point is we called it torture. And we did it so not only against the defeated, but our own.
    We called the bombing of Shangai a war crime, too. We also called unrestricted submarine warfare a war crime. We summarily executed German camp gaurds, without due process, as well. It's only torture when the bad guys do it. When we do it, we're collecting valuable information to protect American lives. You Liberals need to figure out which team you're really on. Ya'll seem to have alot of trouble with that.

    The sad part about it, is that you Leftists think that anything short of a 4 star hotel as a prison, is considered torture.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We called the bombing of Shangai a war crime, too. We also called unrestricted submarine warfare a war crime. We summarily executed German camp gaurds, without due process, as well. It's only torture when the bad guys do it. When we do it, we're collecting valuable information to protect American lives. You Liberals need to figure out which team you're really on. Ya'll seem to have alot of trouble with that.

    The sad part about it, is that you Leftists think that anything short of a 4 star hotel as a prison, is considered torture.
    Again, the poit is you can't say it isn't torture when we have historically called it torture, even to the point of charging our own.

    And you should really not battle leftists. You should address the argument before you. Doing things wrong in the past does not justify doing things wrong in the present. Wrong is wrong. We did a lot wrong in WWII. And torture is torture no matter who does it, which is in part why we charged our own.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, the poit is you can't say it isn't torture when we have historically called it torture, even to the point of charging our own.

    And you should really not battle leftists. You should address the argument before you. Doing things wrong in the past does not justify doing things wrong in the present. Wrong is wrong. We did a lot wrong in WWII. And torture is torture no matter who does it, which is in part why we charged our own.
    Doing things wrong, that cause defeat are wrong. Things that bring success, during a war, are the right things to do. There are no points for good sportsmanship.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Doing things wrong, that cause defeat are wrong. Things that bring success, during a war, are the right things to do. There are no points for good sportsmanship.
    Another leap. Our enemy here can't defeat us period. But there is no evidence that breaking the law or doing what is moral would in any way defeat us. Frankly, conventional interrogation is largely more effective than torture. We have evidence here as we got the good intel long after we stopped using waterboarding. Nearly all the research on torturing concludes it is ineffective for information gathering, but excellent for getting confessions as even the innocent will confess.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, you are the one in error:

    There is a real risk of death from actually drowning or suffering a heart attack or damage to the lungs from inhalation of water

    Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    In the media, waterboarding is called "simulated drowning," but that's a misnomer. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning.

    Read more: I know waterboarding is torture - because I did it myself

    There is No Debate Except for Torture Apologists

    1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification outside of its limited role as a training demonstrator. Our service members have to learn that the will to survive requires them accept and understand that they may be subjected to torture, but that America is better than its enemies and it is one’s duty to trust in your nation and God, endure the hardships and return home with honor.

    2. Waterboarding is not a simulation. Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word.

    Naval Leadership: Waterboarding is Torture… Period





    Like above, you are factually incorrect. We have prosecuted both foeign soliders and our own for using it, calling it torture. We ahve prosecuted law enforcement offices for using it. We have called it torture and held people accountable for doing it.
    You can inhale water and drown or have a heart attack in the shower..that doesn't make a shower torture. You can call it a quinceanera if you like, that doesn't make it one.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Wow. So me hitting the "new threads" link equals paranoia on your part. Gotcha.
    Oh stop...I told you no, now, I mean it.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Another leap. Our enemy here can't defeat us period. But there is no evidence that breaking the law or doing what is moral would in any way defeat us. Frankly, conventional interrogation is largely more effective than torture. We have evidence here as we got the good intel long after we stopped using waterboarding. Nearly all the research on torturing concludes it is ineffective for information gathering, but excellent for getting confessions as even the innocent will confess.
    You think your enemies are using "conventional interrogation" methods? What they will do is just put a bomb on a plane, slit your throat and video the act, blow up a bridge or any transportation system while you think you're taking some imaginary high road. They'll have you cowering in terror while you're trying to talk to them of your Constitution.

    Here's what really happens to your Constitution when fear is on the line..

    One of Terry Jones’ Jurors Confirms It: Muslim Violence Was the Issue « The Greenroom

    They are defeating you, one step at a time, and you're snoozing through the whole thing.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You think your enemies are using "conventional interrogation" methods? What they will do is just put a bomb on a plane, slit your throat and video the act, blow up a bridge or any transportation system while you think you're taking some imaginary high road. They'll have you cowering in terror while you're trying to talk to them of your Constitution.

    Here's what really happens to your Constitution when fear is on the line..

    One of Terry Jones’ Jurors Confirms It: Muslim Violence Was the Issue « The Greenroom

    They are defeating you, one step at a time, and you're snoozing through the whole thing.
    That too is irrelevent. What they use does nto dictate what we use. we don't really want to be them, do we?

    And fear works all kinds of ways. if we let fear make us more like them, we lose. They can't defeat us. we can only defeat ourselves.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    You can inhale water and drown or have a heart attack in the shower..that doesn't make a shower torture. You can call it a quinceanera if you like, that doesn't make it one.
    Don't be silly. I have merely shown that you are wrong in your assumptions. it happens to all of us. Those who do it call it torture. Our government has caleld it torture. While some want to pretend that itn isn't, the facts just don't support them. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You think your enemies are using "conventional interrogation" methods? What they will do is just put a bomb on a plane, slit your throat and video the act, blow up a bridge or any transportation system while you think you're taking some imaginary high road. They'll have you cowering in terror while you're trying to talk to them of your Constitution.

    Here's what really happens to your Constitution when fear is on the line..

    One of Terry Jones’ Jurors Confirms It: Muslim Violence Was the Issue « The Greenroom

    They are defeating you, one step at a time, and you're snoozing through the whole thing.
    So true. Before long we'll be giving up our American ideals and acting like them--attacking civilians, disregarding the laws of our land and cultural heritage, and things like that. There will even be some among us who try to cajole us into behaving as they do, claiming that it is a more 'manly' way, that it is a more safe way.
    I may be wrong.

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