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Thread: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    No, blame the Progressives, in BOTH parties that believe Gov't really is the answer to life's problems (in exchange of course, for votes.)
    The Progressives ARE the socialists.

    In both parties.

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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Civilized?

    Was watching a 60 minutes vid about how one city in Switzerland is booming during the Global recession because all of the international reallocation of businesses to it, to save on taxes.

    Companies like Cisco, etc do strategic moves, particularly their most profitable branches, to avoid the American tax structure.
    That's how a lot of businesses have low marginal tax rates.
    Oh, I figured you were talking about the third world countries that are now starting the long climb to a first world level. Yeah, I think corporate tax rates should be low as well.

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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Oh, I figured you were talking about the third world countries that are now starting the long climb to a first world level. Yeah, I think corporate tax rates should be low as well.
    You'd be surprised to know that people in third world nations still earn an efficiency wage.
    That it isn't bad for them.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You'd be surprised to know that people in third world nations still earn an efficiency wage.
    That it isn't bad for them.
    Without modern institutions such as societal safety nets, it is impossible to be civilized (and I can say this since civilized is a value judgement )

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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Without modern institutions such as societal safety nets, it is impossible to be civilized (and I can say this since civilized is a value judgement )
    Ahh come on, you can't fairly level those kind of value judgment against emerging nations.

    Efficiency wages are those wages above subsistence level.
    Basically the idea is that employers want to pay their employees more than subsistence level to ensure their health, so they don't have large amounts of turnover and loss of efficiency in production.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Ahh come on, you can't fairly level those kind of value judgment against emerging nations.
    I don't see why not. My personal belief is that being civilized requires a certain amount of minimum physical comfort for the population. Otherwise, there is no point in being in that particular country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Efficiency wages are those wages above subsistence level.
    Basically the idea is that employers want to pay their employees more than subsistence level to ensure their health, so they don't have large amounts of turnover and loss of efficiency in production.
    True, but something sucking less than it otherwise can in whatever situation, can often still suck pretty bad and still be bad

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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    The article is a hack fluff piece at best. I particularly like the comparison between Bush spending and Obama spending...adjusted separately by their writers, which shows Obama has 'only' added 1.7 trillion to Bush's 7 trillion. The adjustment of course helps to obfuscate the fact that the debt has gone from 9 billion to 14.5 and will go up to 15.3 trillion by the end of the FY under Obama's watch-an increase of 6.3 trillion...and it also ignores the fact that the 1.7 trillion Obama has run up (as Compared to Bush's 7) took him 2 years to do so. At current rate of spending including in the end only God knows how much they will end up spending on Health care, Obama's totals in 8 years will be greater than Bush's-likely FAR greater. So much for the "to a lessor extent".

    Its the kind of idiocy cited in this article and parroted by others that will ensure we as a people are continually screwed. Its not an either/or situation. Its not a them or us situation. Its an AND and AND situation...spending MUST come down AND there will need to be an increase in tax revenue. We werent screwed over by Bush OR Obama or democrats OR republicans. We have been screwed over by Bush AND Obama...Democrats AND Republicans. They just continue to count on all the mindless myopic little partisan puppets to do their little dances and ignore the reality and keep the same corrupt clowns in power.

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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    So, yes it is a revenue problem, despite what so many here want to believe. Instead of gutting our society, like what paul ryan wants to do, we should just go back to our old tax rates, which would take care of most, if not all, of the problem.
    No, it's not a revenue problem. It is a spending problem. That surplus a decade ago was created by cutting defense and intelligence to leverage the "peace dividend". No entitlements were cut. The realities of our role in the world demanded we re-expand defense and intelligence spending.

    The reality is that 100 years ago, federal spending accounted for only 4% of GDP. The defense build-up post-WWII and the introduction of the Great Deal/Society caused the federal spending to exceed 25% today.

    It is a spending problem.

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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't see why not. My personal belief is that being civilized requires a certain amount of minimum physical comfort for the population. Otherwise, there is no point in being in that particular country.



    True, but something sucking less than it otherwise can in whatever situation, can often still suck pretty bad and still be bad
    Baby steps my friend, baby steps, we don't all develop the same.
    In a great many instances, we all have different abnormalities.

    More to the point of the thread though and this is something I thought of last night.
    We have a budget that tends to flex up and even if it were fixed to a yearly amount of dollars, with adjustments for inflation.
    We still have a dynamic revenue structure that floats with the economy.
    No matter the method of taxation

    Those things can never be congruent.
    So we need to either, adjust the tax structure follow the budget or the budget to follow the tax structure.
    With one not negatively affecting the other.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: On road to surplus, U.S. detoured into debt

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The article is a hack fluff piece at best. I particularly like the comparison between Bush spending and Obama spending...adjusted separately by their writers, which shows Obama has 'only' added 1.7 trillion to Bush's 7 trillion. The adjustment of course helps to obfuscate the fact that the debt has gone from 9 billion to 14.5 and will go up to 15.3 trillion by the end of the FY under Obama's watch-an increase of 6.3 trillion...and it also ignores the fact that the 1.7 trillion Obama has run up (as Compared to Bush's 7) took him 2 years to do so. At current rate of spending including in the end only God knows how much they will end up spending on Health care, Obama's totals in 8 years will be greater than Bush's-likely FAR greater. So much for the "to a lessor extent".

    Its the kind of idiocy cited in this article and parroted by others that will ensure we as a people are continually screwed. Its not an either/or situation. Its not a them or us situation. Its an AND and AND situation...spending MUST come down AND there will need to be an increase in tax revenue. We werent screwed over by Bush OR Obama or democrats OR republicans. We have been screwed over by Bush AND Obama...Democrats AND Republicans. They just continue to count on all the mindless myopic little partisan puppets to do their little dances and ignore the reality and keep the same corrupt clowns in power.
    Yes Vance, being in a recession will of course affect revenues and cause a government to run up debt ... especially if the government is trying to stimulate spending to combat that recession.

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