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Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

He means more like the independence to be able to just walk to the driveway, get in, and go, whenever and wherever you please. No schedule or route to follow.

I know, but that kind of independence has come at great cost to others...
 
what independence?

of movement. for example, i can decide - on a whim - to drive my car through a starbucks, or swing by the piggly wiggly on my way back home and pick up some steaks for dinner. with a bus i can accomplish neither of these things.

As long as we are DEPENDENT on others for our energy, we cannot say we have "independence"....

well that's about as much sense as saying as long as we are dependent on Italy for fine ladies shoes we aren't independent, either. but i agree with the sentiment that we should be tapping our own natural resources - we have the largest reserves in the world and we are idiots for not drilling.
 
. but i agree with the sentiment that we should be tapping our own natural resources - we have the largest reserves in the world and we are idiots for not drilling.
We?
Since when did "we" own the oil in this country? US oil companies have no excess drilling capacity. All rigs are drilling or spoken for. There are hundreds of millions of leased acres that are sitting idle by choice of oil companies. There are 11 refineries sitting idle so don't expect "we" to build any more refineries either. The fact is it benefits oil companies to keep supplies tight. They hate surpluses. You guys really should learn about supply and demand.
 
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of movement. for example, i can decide - on a whim - to drive my car through a starbucks, or swing by the piggly wiggly on my way back home and pick up some steaks for dinner. with a bus i can accomplish neither of these things.



well that's about as much sense as saying as long as we are dependent on Italy for fine ladies shoes we aren't independent, either. but i agree with the sentiment that we should be tapping our own natural resources - we have the largest reserves in the world and we are idiots for not drilling.

Those reserves you are talking about, do they include the oil that is hard/expensive to get to, extract, refine?
Shale oil, is that in those reserves? Tar sands?
 
We?
Since when did "we" own the oil in this country? US oil companies have no excess drilling capacity. All rigs are drilling or spoken for. There are hundreds of millions of leased acres that are sitting idle by choice of oil companies. There are 11 refineries sitting idle so don't expect "we" to build any more refineries either. The fact is it benefits oil companies to keep supplies tight. They hate surpluses. You guys really should learn about supply and demand.

Link to idled refineries? I haven't heard about that. But it makes sense, if we have excess refining capacity, fixed storage capacity, and congress is increasing CAFE standards, the last thing we need is more oil entering the "pipeline"....
 
Link to idled refineries? I haven't heard about that. But it makes sense, if we have excess refining capacity, fixed storage capacity, and congress is increasing CAFE standards, the last thing we need is more oil entering the "pipeline"....
Number of Idle Refineries

One would think the Oil companies would fire up all those idle refineries up, drill in every available spot and create a huge surplus to drive prices back down to 99 cents a gallon. After all they are in business to supply us with cheap, abundant energy, not maximize profits.
 
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Number of Idle Refineries

One would think the Oil companies would fire up all those idle refineries up, drill in every available spot and create a huge surplus to drive prices back down to 99 cents a gallon. After all they are in business to supply us with cheap, abundant energy, not maximize profits.

Sarcasm, right? you wouldn't pull my leg, would you?
 
Number of Idle Refineries

One would think the Oil companies would fire up all those idle refineries up, drill in every available spot and create a huge surplus to drive prices back down to 99 cents a gallon. After all they are in business to supply us with cheap, abundant energy, not maximize profits.

Gas prices are a combination of the lack refining capacity and the devaluation of the US dollar. According to The Inflation Calculator:

What cost $4.00 in 1800 would cost $50.61 in 2010.

Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2010 and 1800,
they would cost you $4.00 and $0.32 respectively.

The devaluation of the dollar has just as much or more to do with the actual price per gallon then any other factor.
 
vote obama, 2012!

your independence comes at great cost to others!

seeya at the polls, pals
 
We?
Since when did "we" own the oil in this country? US oil companies have no excess drilling capacity. All rigs are drilling or spoken for. There are hundreds of millions of leased acres that are sitting idle by choice of oil companies. There are 11 refineries sitting idle so don't expect "we" to build any more refineries either. The fact is it benefits oil companies to keep supplies tight. They hate surpluses. You guys really should learn about supply and demand.

:lol: oil companies care about one thing: PROFITS. open up those area's to drilling and watch them fight each other to be the first to it.
 
Number of Idle Refineries

One would think the Oil companies would fire up all those idle refineries up, drill in every available spot and create a huge surplus to drive prices back down to 99 cents a gallon. After all they are in business to supply us with cheap, abundant energy, not maximize profits.


one would think that. but one would only think that if one thought that we were taping our own oil. instead the boy president has decided he doesn't like the icky, gunky stuff, and so instead we are pouring money into unicorns and windmills.


incidentally, love the way Catawaba "liked" your post :D
 
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Those reserves you are talking about, do they include the oil that is hard/expensive to get to, extract, refine?
Shale oil, is that in those reserves? Tar sands?

shale oil is part of it - but it's becoming cheaper and easier by the day. the oil in alaska is also a small part - but the biggest and quickest pile of accessible free money is off the coast of cali and in the shallower waters of the gulf.
 
I know, but that kind of independence has come at great cost to others...

Getting in your own car, driving to your destination on your own schedule and at your own pace is just one small thing that's so great about this country.
 
Drilling in the gulf or ANWR ain't gonna bring the price of gas down.

It couldn't hurt. besides do you really like it that we buy so much from our enemies? Isn't there some way we could keep more of that money here? Also, just think of the jobs, and the energy independence. People have got to be laughing at us for not using our own resources.
 
And I hope you and cpwill, and other conservatives who dared not even be in this string (wisely), Realize what this says about Your plans to introduce either a higher income tax rate/Flat tax on the middle/poor, or a consumption/sales tax.

These Tens of millions of Walmart Consumers can't even pay for a 20% increase in the price of Gasoline without it cutting into Walmart/inexpensive needs shopping.

So putting a 25%-50% sales tax on ALL Goods, including Gas, would be Untenable.
A poverty inducer as well as economy destroyer.

You forgot about the pre-bate. They won't pay anything unless they exceed the poverty line. Also, taxes on new items only. No taxes on used things like cars, furniture, clothes, appliances, lawn mowers, bikes. The poor will make out like bandits, while drug dealers, tax cheats/avoiders, illegal immigrants will all start paying taxes finally. Everytime they buy something.
 
one would think that. but one would only think that if one thought that we were taping our own oil. instead the boy president has decided he doesn't like the icky, gunky stuff, and so instead we are pouring money into unicorns and windmills.


incidentally, love the way Catawaba "liked" your post :D

Do you honestly believe US oil companies are not tapping oil in the US? There you go using "we" again. Oil is a global market and prices are set accordingly. Hell, Canada exports a substantial amount of their oil yet their gas prices are higher than ours. What's that tell you?
 
It couldn't hurt. besides do you really like it that we buy so much from our enemies? Isn't there some way we could keep more of that money here? Also, just think of the jobs, and the energy independence. People have got to be laughing at us for not using our own resources.
Do you know how much oil reserves the US has?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2178rank.html

People are laughing at you nimrods for believing the US can drill it's way to lower gas prices.
 
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:lol: i love how you discount shale, too.

USGS worked with the North Dakota Geological Survey, a number of petroleum industry companies and independent, universities and other experts to develop a geological understanding of the Bakken Formation. These groups provided critical information for models used in the assessment...

James Bartis, leading researcher with the study, says America has more oil in this one compact area than the entire Middle East. And the stunning news is that we have more oil inside our borders than all the other proven reserves on Earth, and that it could be extracted at an approximate cost to Americans of only $16 a barrel...​

golly gee willickers, wonder why we're not doing that. I wonder if it has anything to do with the econuts splitting their heads in banshee screams every time someone suggests increased US drilling?

Dirty Harry said:
Do you honestly believe US oil companies are not tapping oil in the US?

that is correct - the US and State Governments keep them from tapping more than an exceedingly small percentage of our available reserves. we push people in the gulf out to ridiculous distances, we shut down the west coast, we shut down ANWR, we over-regulate we delay, and we high-cost drilling elsewhere.

There you go using "we" again

yes. we are a representative government , after all, though here it's pretty solidly polled that our government isn't following public opinion. seven in ten Americans favor increased offshore oil drilling.

Oil is a global market and prices are set accordingly

this is true.

Hell, Canada exports a substantial amount of their oil yet their gas prices are higher than ours.

now that is interesting. But I thought you just said that prices were set globally? what are their gasoline tax rates and regulatory burden?
 
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Getting in your own car, driving to your destination on your own schedule and at your own pace is just one small thing that's so great about this country.

no matter the cost to others? our addiction to oil has cost the lives of many service men and women....
The LEAST we can do is stop buying oil from the middle east...
 
shale oil is part of it - but it's becoming cheaper and easier by the day. the oil in alaska is also a small part - but the biggest and quickest pile of accessible free money is off the coast of cali and in the shallower waters of the gulf.

cheaper and easier by the day? gotta see a link or 2 on that, if you don't mind....
 
:lol: i love how you discount shale, too.

USGS worked with the North Dakota Geological Survey, a number of petroleum industry companies and independent, universities and other experts to develop a geological understanding of the Bakken Formation. These groups provided critical information for models used in the assessment...

James Bartis, leading researcher with the study, says America has more oil in this one compact area than the entire Middle East. And the stunning news is that we have more oil inside our borders than all the other proven reserves on Earth, and that it could be extracted at an approximate cost to Americans of only $16 a barrel...​

golly gee willickers, wonder why we're not doing that. I wonder if it has anything to do with the econuts splitting their heads in banshee screams every time someone suggests increased US drilling?



that is correct - the US and State Governments keep them from tapping more than an exceedingly small percentage of our available reserves. we push people in the gulf out to ridiculous distances, we shut down the west coast, we shut down ANWR, we over-regulate we delay, and we high-cost drilling elsewhere.



yes. we are a representative government , after all, though here it's pretty solidly polled that our government isn't following public opinion. seven in ten Americans favor increased offshore oil drilling.



this is true.



now that is interesting. But I thought you just said that prices were set globally? what are their gasoline tax rates and regulatory burden?

shale oil is part of it - but it's becoming cheaper and easier by the day. the oil in alaska is also a small part - but the biggest and quickest pile of accessible free money is off the coast of cali and in the shallower waters of the gulf.

So the government is preventing the drilling of most of the US oil reserves but is allowing drilling (large amounts of it) in the region that holds more oil then the ME (according to your links)?

If the Bakken formation has as much recoverable oil as your links suggest drilling in Alaska and of the coasts of Florida and Cali are definately not needed. Nor would the government be preventing drilling for the most significant areas capable of oil production
 
So the government is preventing the drilling of most of the US oil reserves but is allowing drilling (large amounts of it) in the region that holds more oil then the ME (according to your links)?

yes and no. the Government (as i understand it) is allowing exploratory type missions and small incursions. but the technology there is much newer and still being developed. which is why i said the quickest big vats of free money are still ANWR and off our coastlines. We will be able to throw up production off the West Coast and the shallow ranges of the Gulf quicker than we will be able to get shale fully up and running.

If the Bakken formation has as much recoverable oil as your links suggest drilling in Alaska and of the coasts of Florida and Cali are definately not needed.

that's like saying if we can feed everyone in the nation we don't need houses. there is no reason not to go after all the oil we can.
 
yes and no. the Government (as i understand it) is allowing exploratory type missions and small incursions. but the technology there is much newer and still being developed. which is why i said the quickest big vats of free money are still ANWR and off our coastlines. We will be able to throw up production off the West Coast and the shallow ranges of the Gulf quicker than we will be able to get shale fully up and running.



that's like saying if we can feed everyone in the nation we don't need houses. there is no reason not to go after all the oil we can.


Sure there is

A country can only use so much oil. To increase supply to such an extent that the price of oil drops below the cost of production would be counteproductive

Secondly ANWAR and the oil of the coasts could be kept as a strategic reserve, to be used when world wide production starts to decrease to such an extent that oil truely becomes scarce. While the Bakken play can be exploited to its fullest. Thus ensuring the US coast lines are kept beautiful for the tourists, and the seafood safe to eat.

That is of course if the Bakken oil formation is as big as you suggest
 
Shale oil should not be considered "reserves" until we have much cheaper ways to extract it.....and that ain't gonna be in the near future...
 
Shale oil should not be considered "reserves" until we have much cheaper ways to extract it.....and that ain't gonna be in the near future...

Is there even a single refinery in the US capable of refining shale oil?
 
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