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Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

What if...? said:
You do realize that distrbuted production, mass transit, alternative enrgy would cost fossil fuel interests TRILLIONS of dollars in profits, right?
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no, it wouldn't. the non-governmental organizations most invested in alternative energy technology are the current technology giants. when gas actually get's to the point (or when the technology develops to the point) where they become economically viable, they all want to be the first one in the gate.

but they're not moving now. why? do they want to give up being the first in a new market and the profits that would entail? of course not - if there is one thing we can generally trust corporations to do, it's seek to maximize their profit. they aren't moving now because there is no demand. the people of the US don't want to drive 4 miles to a bus station where they cram into a bus to drive another 4 miles into the city to go to work. they just want to drive the 8 miles, and have a personalized stop-off at the starbucks on the way. or the dunkin doghnuts. they'll decide when they get there.

Of course you do. Buttered bread and all that.
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:roll: yeah. Big Oil pays me to waste my time attempting to describe reality to people who prefer to see the world through techno-fantasy lenses. I wish - I know exactly where I would put the extra money.
 
cpwill said:
yup. then the experts were sure that we were going to overpopulate and all starve to death in the 1980's
then the experts told us that deforestation was going to leave us all choking to death
and now the experts are telling us that cows farting is going to cause florida to sink beneath the sea

so.... yeah.....

Catawaba: move the goal posts much? I couldn't care less about the military report, either. Peak Oil foolishness has been promising us scarcity since 1894 - yet our reserves keep going up.
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Could you please provide a cite for your 1894 claim?
 
cpwill said:
i wouldn't even call wind that. solar maybe.
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not solar cell panels,,,,,for sure.
Even the other kind, acres of mirrors all shining on a tower only work in the day time, but that is when we need supplemental power...
 
What if...? said:
Look, ya jackalope
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:D the jackalope is a fine American tradition. thank you :)

I've been looking for a way around the loss of private transportation since shortly after I started driving.
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which pretty much demonstrates the futility of getting Americans to give up their freedom of personal transportation.

Population, traffic jams, air pollution, foreign wars for oil, oil spills, speculation, profiteering, socializing risks/expenses, all promise an eventual end to private GASOLINE powered transportation.
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actually none of these things do. speculation actually increases the supply of available oil by reducing the losses of exploration.

Electric has been waiting for batteries, and now they're here. Now we're just waiting for economies of scale to bring prices down.

Embracing electrics also has the side benefit of providing grid storage, upping our efficiency DRAMATICALLY.

Propaganda spread by oil companies(working in their rational self-interest) is the only thing standing in the way.
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that. and the fact that such isn't economically feasible. even with massive government subsidies these programs can't compete in the market place. how many chevy volts are getting sold? something like 200 a month?

incidentally - you may want to look up the ecological devastation wrecked by the production of those battery engines. since you brought it up earlier.
 
UtahBill said:
not solar cell panels,,,,,for sure.
Even the other kind, acres of mirrors all shining on a tower only work in the day time, but that is when we need supplemental power...
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yeah, but I mean have you looked at how much we need? solar will work in some sectors of the country (Arizona) much better than they will work in others (Washington). And I think the figures for trying to use wind include turning entire states into nothing but windmill towers...

I could see tougher solar panels getting worked into roofing material once their price comes down; and houses having some kind of an automatic "takes from the roof and then from the grid" switch...

miniaturized nuclear plants also deserve mention. but those are decisions for housing companies and counties and cities, not the federal government.
 
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cpwill said:
i've seen people criticize attempts to use the power of government to push healthy eating - it's not the feds job to tell me i have to eat an apple in between every twinkie. And I've seen people criticize her "the first tim i've ever been proud of my country" remark.

I've never seen anything approaching the bile and vitriol we've seen out of the left in the past few years. republians still try to police their extremes - democrats have largely embraced them.



as a matter of fact i do not.



now, the last time i checked - the only thing Republicans ever pulled the "with us or against us" card was a world-wide war against Islamist fundamentalism. not their domestic political opponents.



indeed it well. the Ryan budget gives me hope.
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So are these poison stickers they're using? Destruction?

You PR guys are really starting to reach.

Good.
 
VanceMack said:
I hear ya. Its almost like we never had the first few ice ages...or warming periods...and dry lake beds would probably indicate that climate in a closed ecosystem tends to shift and change with fairly consistent regularity...
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...only occasionally killing most of the species on the planet.
 
UtahBill said:
and none of your fears will be realized....mass transit works well only in densely populated areas, not where the population is just dense....
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Bet this ends up as someones sig!

Awesome!
 
cpwill said:
i mean, heck, if we can't solve a problem in less than 6 months, then it's just not worth solving.
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Yeah, screw alternative energy!

Slow down, yer blowin' it!:2wave:
 
What if...? said:
So are these poison stickers they're using? Destruction?
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i couldn't tell you. i know that spraypainting a building is also considered vandalism, though there is no destruction or poisoning involved. irrespective, the campaign remains national and it remains illegal.
 
What if...? said:
...only occasionally killing most of the species on the planet.
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actually, as the hotter times in our planets history have been the ones in which life exploded, ecologists should be cheering global warming on.
 
Barbbtx said:
You do realize that if the global warming hoax is ever truly debunked and cap and trade goes in the crapper, lots of people and other countries will lose out on trillions they expected to gain, right?

Buttered bread and all that.
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Can I dump my trash in your yard for free?

Didn't think so.

So why should polluters get to dump their crap in everybodys air for free?
 
cpwill said:
no, it wouldn't. the non-governmental organizations most invested in alternative energy technology are the current technology giants. when gas actually get's to the point (or when the technology develops to the point) where they become economically viable, they all want to be the first one in the gate.

but they're not moving now. why? do they want to give up being the first in a new market and the profits that would entail? of course not - if there is one thing we can generally trust corporations to do, it's seek to maximize their profit. they aren't moving now because there is no demand. the people of the US don't want to drive 4 miles to a bus station where they cram into a bus to drive another 4 miles into the city to go to work. they just want to drive the 8 miles, and have a personalized stop-off at the starbucks on the way. or the dunkin doghnuts. they'll decide when they get there.



:roll: yeah. Big Oil pays me to waste my time attempting to describe reality to people who prefer to see the world through techno-fantasy lenses. I wish - I know exactly where I would put the extra money.
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China disagrees.

And who says its big oil? Your expertise seems to be extremely complex economics leaving out inconvenient information. Appeal to ignorance kind of stuff. And you don't try to convince anyone, just tell anyone off message they're wrong.
 
cpwill said:
:D the jackalope is a fine American tradition. thank you :)



which pretty much demonstrates the futility of getting Americans to give up their freedom of personal transportation.



actually none of these things do. speculation actually increases the supply of available oil by reducing the losses of exploration.



that. and the fact that such isn't economically feasible. even with massive government subsidies these programs can't compete in the market place. how many chevy volts are getting sold? something like 200 a month?

incidentally - you may want to look up the ecological devastation wrecked by the production of those battery engines. since you brought it up earlier.
Click to expand...

On the battery BANK issue, lithium battery production is energy inefficient due to our assinine global production models built around cheap oil. And new lithium chemistries are less toxic and more recyclable. Technology in these areas is advancing faster than its opponents can spin it. Because the rest of the world WANTS this stuff.

FOOLS!
 
cpwill said:
yeah, but I mean have you looked at how much we need? solar will work in some sectors of the country (Arizona) much better than they will work in others (Washington). And I think the figures for trying to use wind include turning entire states into nothing but windmill towers...

I could see tougher solar panels getting worked into roofing material once their price comes down; and houses having some kind of an automatic "takes from the roof and then from the grid" switch...

miniaturized nuclear plants also deserve mention. but those are decisions for housing companies and counties and cities, not the federal government.
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Please research solar power a little more. You just described the most common type of solar system sold in America, referred to as grid tied. Excess power is provided to the grid and during the day and returned watt for watt at night.

Wind turbines have small footprints and the Great Plains is the Persian Gulf of wind.

Again, China and the rest of the world disagree with you on this. Billions are being made selling stuff you swear people don't want to buy.
 
I love conservatives that laugh in the face of science as they post on the Internet. Derrrr. Yeah, drive your car, type on your laptop, and watch your TV, but let those scientists know how full of **** they are! And screw that liberal education system!
 
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