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Thread: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

  1. #421
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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i love how you discount shale, too.

    USGS worked with the North Dakota Geological Survey, a number of petroleum industry companies and independent, universities and other experts to develop a geological understanding of the Bakken Formation. These groups provided critical information for models used in the assessment...

    James Bartis, leading researcher with the study, says America has more oil in this one compact area than the entire Middle East. And the stunning news is that we have more oil inside our borders than all the other proven reserves on Earth, and that it could be extracted at an approximate cost to Americans of only $16 a barrel...

    golly gee willickers, wonder why we're not doing that. I wonder if it has anything to do with the econuts splitting their heads in banshee screams every time someone suggests increased US drilling?



    that is correct - the US and State Governments keep them from tapping more than an exceedingly small percentage of our available reserves. we push people in the gulf out to ridiculous distances, we shut down the west coast, we shut down ANWR, we over-regulate we delay, and we high-cost drilling elsewhere.



    yes. we are a representative government , after all, though here it's pretty solidly polled that our government isn't following public opinion. seven in ten Americans favor increased offshore oil drilling.



    this is true.



    now that is interesting. But I thought you just said that prices were set globally? what are their gasoline tax rates and regulatory burden?
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    shale oil is part of it - but it's becoming cheaper and easier by the day. the oil in alaska is also a small part - but the biggest and quickest pile of accessible free money is off the coast of cali and in the shallower waters of the gulf.
    So the government is preventing the drilling of most of the US oil reserves but is allowing drilling (large amounts of it) in the region that holds more oil then the ME (according to your links)?

    If the Bakken formation has as much recoverable oil as your links suggest drilling in Alaska and of the coasts of Florida and Cali are definately not needed. Nor would the government be preventing drilling for the most significant areas capable of oil production
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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So the government is preventing the drilling of most of the US oil reserves but is allowing drilling (large amounts of it) in the region that holds more oil then the ME (according to your links)?
    yes and no. the Government (as i understand it) is allowing exploratory type missions and small incursions. but the technology there is much newer and still being developed. which is why i said the quickest big vats of free money are still ANWR and off our coastlines. We will be able to throw up production off the West Coast and the shallow ranges of the Gulf quicker than we will be able to get shale fully up and running.

    If the Bakken formation has as much recoverable oil as your links suggest drilling in Alaska and of the coasts of Florida and Cali are definately not needed.
    that's like saying if we can feed everyone in the nation we don't need houses. there is no reason not to go after all the oil we can.

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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes and no. the Government (as i understand it) is allowing exploratory type missions and small incursions. but the technology there is much newer and still being developed. which is why i said the quickest big vats of free money are still ANWR and off our coastlines. We will be able to throw up production off the West Coast and the shallow ranges of the Gulf quicker than we will be able to get shale fully up and running.



    that's like saying if we can feed everyone in the nation we don't need houses. there is no reason not to go after all the oil we can.

    Sure there is

    A country can only use so much oil. To increase supply to such an extent that the price of oil drops below the cost of production would be counteproductive

    Secondly ANWAR and the oil of the coasts could be kept as a strategic reserve, to be used when world wide production starts to decrease to such an extent that oil truely becomes scarce. While the Bakken play can be exploited to its fullest. Thus ensuring the US coast lines are kept beautiful for the tourists, and the seafood safe to eat.

    That is of course if the Bakken oil formation is as big as you suggest
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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Shale oil should not be considered "reserves" until we have much cheaper ways to extract it.....and that ain't gonna be in the near future...
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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Shale oil should not be considered "reserves" until we have much cheaper ways to extract it.....and that ain't gonna be in the near future...
    Is there even a single refinery in the US capable of refining shale oil?
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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Is there even a single refinery in the US capable of refining shale oil?
    don't know, doubt it....
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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Is there even a single refinery in the US capable of refining shale oil?
    Yes and no

    Shale oil is pretty much useless ( the stuff from Utah called kerogen) without upgrading and refining. Of course so is the oil from the tar sands in Alberta.

    Rather idiotically Alberta is sending raw heavy crude from the oil sands down to southern US for upgrading and refining rather then building or expanding refineries and upgraders here in Alberta. Also the US does a fair bit of refining of Venezuelan crude which is rather heavy and sour. So the US does have the capability of refining shale oil. It is the extraction and the cost of upgrading such oil that is the issue. Without nuclear power the costs of extraction outweigh the economic benifits ( without subsidized natural gas oil sand extraction in Alberta would be far less profitable
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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Sure there is

    A country can only use so much oil. To increase supply to such an extent that the price of oil drops below the cost of production would be counteproductive
    that's the balancing act best left to the companies themselves - today they do the same thing with their regular wells.

    Secondly ANWAR and the oil of the coasts could be kept as a strategic reserve, to be used when world wide production starts to decrease to such an extent that oil truly becomes scarce.
    we shouldn't exploit it because in the future that means we would be able to exploit it? if oil is going away as rapidly as some seem to be suggesting, then opening up ANWR and the Coasts isn't really going to extend it that much at such a time. The world will be transitioning to some other source. Better to make the money while we can and before that switch get's made. You don't want to be the guy with all your eggs in whale oil when kerosene comes down the pipeline.

    While the Bakken play can be exploited to its fullest. Thus ensuring the US coast lines are kept beautiful for the tourists, and the seafood safe to eat.
    I will take any compromise that increases exploitation of our resources here, while continually pushing for more exploitation. the coast lines of the gulf are beautiful and the seafood safe. the one time this hasn't occurred was the result of our drill bans - we pushed them out beyond the ability of the technology and we suffered for it. wells 5 miles offshore don't have those issues.

    That is of course if the Bakken oil formation is as big as you suggest
    well, let's hope.

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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's the balancing act best left to the companies themselves - today they do the same thing with their regular wells.



    we shouldn't exploit it because in the future that means we would be able to exploit it? if oil is going away as rapidly as some seem to be suggesting, then opening up ANWR and the Coasts isn't really going to extend it that much at such a time. The world will be transitioning to some other source. Better to make the money while we can and before that switch get's made. You don't want to be the guy with all your eggs in whale oil when kerosene comes down the pipeline.



    I will take any compromise that increases exploitation of our resources here, while continually pushing for more exploitation. the coast lines of the gulf are beautiful and the seafood safe. the one time this hasn't occurred was the result of our drill bans - we pushed them out beyond the ability of the technology and we suffered for it. wells 5 miles offshore don't have those issues.



    well, let's hope.
    The coast lines are beautifull because of the lack of oil washing up on shore and the lack of visiable oil platforms. Not many tourists would go to Daytona beach to be covered in petroleum oil rather then suntan oil, to see oil rigs, rather then topless chicks. Florida and Califonia make far more money in tourism then they could in oil royalties, and if I am not mistaken both state governments are against drilling on the coastlines of their states for just such reasons.

    Lastly having a reserve of strategic resources is something I believe most people would find to be a good thing. Selling limited resources at cheap prices is never a good idea from any economic point of view, consuming a stragetic resource to the point of having no reserves is definately not a good idea from a national defense point of view. Something you overlook is that any transition to a new energy source would take time, and having a supply of oil to assist in that transition would be a good thing from an economioc and sociological point of view
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    Re: Wal-Mart: Our shoppers are 'running out of money'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The coast lines are beautifull because of the lack of oil washing up on shore and the lack of visiable oil platforms. Not many tourists would go to Daytona beach to be covered in petroleum oil rather then suntan oil, to see oil rigs, rather then topless chicks. Florida and Califonia make far more money in tourism then they could in oil royalties, and if I am not mistaken both state governments are against drilling on the coastlines of their states for just such reasons.

    Lastly having a reserve of strategic resources is something I believe most people would find to be a good thing. Selling limited resources at cheap prices is never a good idea from any economic point of view, consuming a stragetic resource to the point of having no reserves is definately not a good idea from a national defense point of view. Something you overlook is that any transition to a new energy source would take time, and having a supply of oil to assist in that transition would be a good thing from an economioc and sociological point of view
    John McCain spoke to this point when he voted last year against drilling in ANWR. He said, "We ought not drill in the Everglades, we ought not drill in the Grand Canyon, and we ought not drill in ANWR!
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