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Afghan officer opens fire, kills 9 Americans

other said:
So what do you think should happen to this preacher and the media concerning their supposed accountability in the murders in Afganistan?
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Should happen? I don't know... nothing will happen. I don't think he should be arrested or anything. I don't think free speech should be limited. I just don't think he is 100% innocent, even if he didn't pull the trigger. He is worse than the Westboro Baptist Church. At least their events and protests don't end up with dead people... least not yet
 
SheWolf said:
Should happen? I don't know... nothing will happen. I don't think he should be arrested or anything. I don't think free speech should be limited. I just don't think he is 100% innocent, even if he didn't pull the trigger. He is worse than the Westboro Baptist Church. At least their events and protests don't end up with dead people... least not yet
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Yeah, well I think he's despicable too. But just as you've agreed, he's not legally accountable and nothing's going to happen. And if you don't want to limit free speech, then I guess you also think that nothing should happen.

I disagree that he's worse than westboro, but that's just a matter of personal opinion based on the fact that, without the media's help, the pastor would be completely inconsequential... Westboro actively seeks to do emotional harm to others in person. Pastor, westboro, media -- all equally assholes, but none are accountable for the murder but the murderer himself.
 
SheWolf said:
Right... this asshole pastor knew the risk, he knew there would be a violent response and that is what he is accountable for. He essentially put other people's lives at risk. He is a ****ing coward.
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I have already said that I dont think he should be held criminally liable, but civilly? Yeah...I'm betting they could make a pretty decent case for it. Or better yet, lets just scoop him up and take him to Afghanistan and put him on a 10 city speaking and Koran burning tour...that should do the trick.
 
other said:
Yeah, well I think he's despicable too. But just as you've agreed, he's not legally accountable and nothing's going to happen. And if you don't want to limit free speech, then I guess you also think that nothing should happen.

I disagree that he's worse than westboro, but that's just a matter of personal opinion based on the fact that, without the media's help, the pastor would be completely inconsequential... Westboro actively seeks to do emotional harm to others in person. Pastor, westboro, media -- all equally assholes, but none are accountable for the murder but the murderer himself.
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What I know about the law I learned from Law and Order...which means...I know nothing about the law...admittedly...but I dont know that he would not be found legally liable. He already threatened to burn the Koran but then stopped and discussed it indicating he understood there was a potential for his specific act to cause someone else to die. Maybe not criminally...but...Id be suing his ass if my kid was the one hurt because of his dickless gutless spineless act of cowardice.
 
other said:
Yeah, well I think he's despicable too. But just as you've agreed, he's not legally accountable and nothing's going to happen. And if you don't want to limit free speech, then I guess you also think that nothing should happen.

I disagree that he's worse than westboro, but that's just a matter of personal opinion based on the fact that, without the media's help, the pastor would be completely inconsequential... Westboro actively seeks to do emotional harm to others in person. Pastor, westboro, media -- all equally assholes, but none are accountable for the murder but the murderer himself.
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I see it differently... Charles Mason didn't kill anybody himself, but he encouraged his followers to kill and was sentenced to death for his role in the family. The trail was even built against his followers to convince the jury the followers weren't forced to do it, completely brainwashed and drugged, and that they acted on their own homicidal instincts to some extent. The prosecutor used evidence such as many of the followers made death threats or acted violently or sadistically before joining the Mason Family, and that is why all involved were also sentenced to death.

There is no question many of them had issues and probably psychological problems before joining Mason, but there is no question that Manson also influenced them to kill. He couldn't influence all his members to kill. One member I believe went on a trip, but she stayed in the car... He knew some members were less likely to kill.

This is the same with the pastor. He influenced the situation.

Osama bin Ladan didn't run planes into buildings on 9/11 but we still hold him accountable for his role. This pastor is a religious leader. He might not be killing people himself, but most leaders hate groups don't do the killing themselves or go to prison. I think this pastor is motivated by some hatred he has of the ME and of Islam. He is just as ignorant as the guy leading the Westboro Baptist Church. The only difference is nobody has been killed because of the WBC... They are like trolls but they are trolling in real life, not on the internet.

The WBC is responsible for causing a lot pain and hurt. They are disrespectful and a disgusting bunch, no doubt...
 
VanceMack said:
I have already said that I dont think he should be held criminally liable, but civilly? Yeah...I'm betting they could make a pretty decent case for it. Or better yet, lets just scoop him up and take him to Afghanistan and put him on a 10 city speaking and Koran burning tour...that should do the trick.
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I like the idea of putting him in the middle east... In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets killed or some extremist tries to like the Danish cartoonist. And when/if he does get killed, I won't feel sorry for him either. I didn't feel sorry when the white supremacist leader in CA got killed either...
 
I just looked up that Mason was convicted under a joint responsibility rule...

"which makes each member of a conspiracy guilty of crimes his fellow conspirators commit in furtherance of the conspiracy's object."

... so it was basically conspiracy.

Charles Manson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
repeter said:
I want to drive home is that his speech directly caused the death of 2 American servicemen.
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lol....thats intolerant bs

You're sitting there whining about how intolerant, the Pastor is for mocking a religion (book burning) that is attempting to subvert and destroy the American way of life. I find that incredibly ironic.

Bitching about him being intolerant of a religion that is the sheer definition of intolerance. If that makes him intolerant, then he should be proud of it. We should ALL be intolerant of them. Any religion that kills people over a ****ing drawing (among other atrocities, want a list?)...like some stupid ass book burning should not be tolerated. Period. Did the Catholics attempt to kill Kevin Smith for using the Buddy Christ in the movie "Dogma"? **** no. Had that been "Hommie Mohammed" instead of "Buddy Christ", oh holy ****, Smith's career would have been cut drastically short.

You are aware that it's not Christians we're fighting in A-stan, and other 3rd World ****-holes, right? It ain't the Jews planting IEDs. Wiccans aren't blowing themselves up in crowds of people. Hell, not even the Scientology ****s are strapping bombs on children. Mormons didn't kill some of my friends family members and friends. Do you see a pattern emerging here?

You, and all those you love - your momma and daddy, your sisters and brothers, old silver-haired granny, your children, friends and other loved ones - are all fair game in the great game we call jihad. They want to ****ing kill them all, and they're deadly serious about it. They'd gladly take a 90 year old granny stuck in her wheel chair, chop her ****ing head off with a butterknife, and they'd revel in that ****. They'd throw a ****ing party. That is what you're defending with your posts.

Afghan lowlife did the deed.. Pastor did absolutely nothing wrong somewhat insulting, sophomoric, even poor taste (book burning)....probably, but this is a free country, with free speech - even the insulting kind, just ask the President - and getting called names is just part of it.

It's hardly persecution.
 
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ric27 said:
lol....thats intolerant bs

You're sitting there whining about how intolerant, the Pastor is for mocking a religion (book burning) that is attempting to subvert and destroy the American way of life. I find that incredibly ironic.

Bitching about him being intolerant of a religion that is the sheer definition of intolerance. If that makes him intolerant, then he should be proud of it. We should ALL be intolerant of them. Any religion that kills people over a ****ing drawing (among other atrocities, want a list?)...like some stupid ass book burning should not be tolerated. Period. Did the Catholics attempt to kill Kevin Smith for using the Buddy Christ in the movie "Dogma"? **** no. Had that been "Hommie Mohammed" instead of "Buddy Christ", oh holy ****, Smith's career would have been cut drastically short.

You are aware that it's not Christians we're fighting in A-stan, and other 3rd World ****-holes, right? It ain't the Jews planting IEDs. Wiccans aren't blowing themselves up in crowds of people. Hell, not even the Scientology ****s are strapping bombs on children. Mormons didn't kill some of my friends family members and friends. Do you see a pattern emerging here?

You, and all those you love - your momma and daddy, your sisters and brothers, old silver-haired granny, your children, friends and other loved ones - are all fair game in the great game we call jihad. They want to ****ing kill them all, and they're deadly serious about it. They'd gladly take a 90 year old granny stuck in her wheel chair, chop her ****ing head off with a butterknife, and they'd revel in that ****. They'd throw a ****ing party. That is what you're defending with your posts.

Afghan lowlife did the deed.. Pastor did absolutely nothing wrong somewhat insulting, sophomoric, even poor taste (book burning)....probably, but this is a free country, with free speech - even the insulting kind, just ask the President - and getting called names is just part of it.

It's hardly persecution.
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No one is suggesting those that did the deed dont bare ultimate responsibility. I wont speak for others but I think the guy is a cowardly little bitch that needlessly risked others lives while hiding under the protection and skirt of his 'rights'. I think it can be reasonably proven that he knew damn goods and well that his actions would bring about an intended result...that is...the death of SOMEONE not himself.
 
ric27 said:
What does A-stan have to offer the core? Why should the core spend one life there?

If you don't know what the core is, Pentagon's New Map.

Get it here...Amazon.com: The Pentagon's New Map: War and Peace in the Twenty-First Century (9780399151750): Thomas P.M. Barnett: Books

Read it
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Ric...a hypothetical question...

Your neighbor has a pit bull. Its a fairly well behaved pit bull and stays in its yard. It tends to snarl and snap when kids walk by, but for the most part...it stays in its yard. But you dont like the owner and you dont like the pit bull so one day you hang out by the fence after school. You start yelling at the dog, working it into a frenzy when the kids walk by. The dog breaks free and mauls three children walking by. Do you bear responsibility?
 
ric27 said:
lol....thats intolerant bs

You're sitting there whining about how intolerant, the Pastor is for mocking a religion (book burning) that is attempting to subvert and destroy the American way of life. I find that incredibly ironic.
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The problem with your perspective is that you're blaming an entire religion for the acts of a fringe group. Thank God the religion is not trying to subvert and destroy the American way of life, there are three times as many Muslims in the world as there are Americans.

So, once you can get past the sheer misconception that Muslims are out to get us, maybe you'll understand that there are psychos out there in "A-stan" and we're fighting those guys. And those guys have a lot of influence over the laymen in "A-stan" because what we've done is kill the laymen's family, destroy his country, and now, we s**t on his religion too.

What the f**k would you do if someone did all this? Judging from your attitude and post, you'd be the first to volunteer for a comparable suicide bombing service.
 
VanceMack said:
What I know about the law I learned from Law and Order...which means...I know nothing about the law...admittedly...but I dont know that he would not be found legally liable. He already threatened to burn the Koran but then stopped and discussed it indicating he understood there was a potential for his specific act to cause someone else to die. Maybe not criminally...but...Id be suing his ass if my kid was the one hurt because of his dickless gutless spineless act of cowardice.
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I'm not a lawyer either, so I'm not familiar with whether or not he could be pinned with civil liability -- and certainly wouldn't oppose it, if the family members sought retribution.

Problem I see, though, is with carrying the reaction too far in response to the afghan murderer... his kind wants to stir up this kind of hate and discontent over here to legitimize their own radical positions. And then there's the damn media complex all over this idoit pastor, crooning his tripe for the world to see. Seems like they should be just as responsible as the pastor if a civil suit is brought.
 
other said:
I'm not a lawyer either, so I'm not familiar with whether or not he could be pinned with civil liability -- and certainly wouldn't oppose it, if the family members sought retribution.

Problem I see, though, is with carrying the reaction too far in response to the afghan murderer... his kind wants to stir up this kind of hate and discontent over here to legitimize their own radical positions. And then there's the damn media complex all over this idoit pastor, crooning his tripe for the world to see. Seems like they should be just as responsible as the pastor if a civil suit is brought.
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So a forced vacation through the Afghanistan countryside, complete with posted itinerary is the answer.
 
other said:
And then there's the damn media complex all over this idoit pastor, crooning his tripe for the world to see. Seems like they should be just as responsible as the pastor if a civil suit is brought.
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I agree with that in this case, but not as a precedent. The media took this crap way too far, and sensationalized it as well.

The reason Jones should be held liable for the death of those Americans is because they might not have died if he hadn't burned the Korans; if he chose inaction, nothing would have happened. If the media had not reported the story, I get the feeling it would have gotten out, it just would have taken longer, and might have gotten someone else killed at a later time; inaction could still have resulted in the deaths.
 
If the pastor is responsible for the murders of those Americans in any way, civil or criminal, then Clinton is responsible in the same way for mcveighs blowing up the federal building in OKC as he said it was revenge for the killing of innocents in Waco one year earlier. The paperwork against both should be filed together.
 
repeter said:
I agree with that in this case, but not as a precedent. The media took this crap way too far, and sensationalized it as well.

The reason Jones should be held liable for the death of those Americans is because they might not have died if he hadn't burned the Korans; if he chose inaction, nothing would have happened. If the media had not reported the story, I get the feeling it would have gotten out, it just would have taken longer, and might have gotten someone else killed at a later time; inaction could still have resulted in the deaths.
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That's the problem I have spreading around the guilt in this case. The afghan is the murderer; he should be flayed...

If we start looking to punish others, adding in hypotheticals, it's just a witch-hunt -- and on top of that, the guy who did the murder wants us to react and go after the koran-burning pastor. Going down that road, though I want to make this dumbass pastor pay, is just the kind of response they want.

Best case scenario, we just ignore the the baiting pastor, he's worthless trash. The media ignores him too, why report such a story in the first place? It's stupid. Then we take the guy who actually pulled the trigger and make an example out of him. Maybe some good ole' boys will take a baseball bat to the pastor's kneecaps, who knows -- either way, now that this has already led to american deaths overseas, the international media probably wouldn't give two ****s...
 
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