Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health System

  1. #11
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    This, except for the child clause. Also, if I still have to pony up I should be able to change my mind and use it if I so please (not that I would). If the opt-out allows me to also opt-out of paying then I agree, except, again, for the child clause.

    I couldn't get a sonogram done on Medicaid because it was "unnecessary" according to the nifty flow chart the doctor had. Instead of diagnosing gall stones at 12 when the symptoms arose I had to wait until I was 16 and had "real" insurance to get somebody to run tests. I'll deal with insurance and their denials. I'll pay off hospital bills when I have to. I've had the alternative and I didn't like it.
    If you change your mind and go back and forth from state to private, then I guess it would be ok if one ponied up each time. The important thing is that the funding is maintained or else the system will get cheated. I am flexible on the exact mechanism for maintaining that integrity though.

    As far as how good or bad individual experiences are with public or private insurance, I have heard every opinion on both from good to bad, which is why I feel it is better to look at studies for important indicators over a person's story. According to just about every study I have seen, we simply get better results with a national health care plan when you look at the overall picture, even if there are those who don't like aspects of it and it doesn't always work for everybody all the time. But then again, no system is perfect for every individual and we simply have to accept that or else we will never move forward with any type of solution whether it is something more conservative or more liberal (or something nobody has thought of yet). I am sorry you had a bad experience though.

  2. #12
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    It wasn't great, but you were cared for if you were sick. Now I'm not here to advocate the single payer system as the ONLY option, but I do see severe problems with our healthcare system as it exists now. I find it ridiculous that we, as a supposedly passionate country, profit off of our sick. I also find it ridiculous that people are willing to exploit our social programs as is common in health, welfare, and unemployment.
    That's the thing. I wasn't cared for. Not many facilities accepted the program except ERs, and those that did had long waiting lists to get in. My problems weren't diagnosed and other illness were often just simply over looked.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  3. #13
    Advisor Midwest Lib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    512

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    That's the thing. I wasn't cared for. Not many facilities accepted the program except ERs, and those that did had long waiting lists to get in. My problems weren't diagnosed and other illness were often just simply over looked.
    I understand and disagree with those practices. Honestly I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the medical billing business to say with any certainty that there is any one right way. I however know of many people who have had coverage problems with private insurance as well. At the end of the day though, I find healthcare and education to be our biggest priorities in this country and find it ridiculous that many have had to give up ones livelihood just to live. Again, I don't know how to fix this problem, which is why I won't advocate something I don't understand strongly enough. I also believe that people need to get their priorities in order. Many CAN afford insurance but choose not to, opting for new cars, flat screen tv's and houses a quarter of a million dollars out of their budget. At the end of the day, I don't think anything will change in this country unless we have a serious look at our priorities.

  4. #14
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    I understand and disagree with those practices. Honestly I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the medical billing business to say with any certainty that there is any one right way. I however know of many people who have had coverage problems with private insurance as well. At the end of the day though, I find healthcare and education to be our biggest priorities in this country and find it ridiculous that many have had to give up ones livelihood just to live. Again, I don't know how to fix this problem, which is why I won't advocate something I don't understand strongly enough. I also believe that people need to get their priorities in order. Many CAN afford insurance but choose not to, opting for new cars, flat screen tv's and houses a quarter of a million dollars out of their budget. At the end of the day, I don't think anything will change in this country unless we have a serious look at our priorities.
    I had to straighten out my priorities recently. I'm only 21. I used to be pretty athletic when I was younger, but now I'm borderline overweight. I'm suffering from borderline hypertension, high cholesterol, a fatty liver from eating too much junk. I made a lifestyle change. It all starts with the individual.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #15
    Advisor Midwest Lib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    512

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I had to straighten out my priorities recently. I'm only 21. I used to be pretty athletic when I was younger, but now I'm borderline overweight. I'm suffering from borderline hypertension, high cholesterol, a fatty liver from eating too much junk. I made a lifestyle change. It all starts with the individual.
    Agreed. I'm 25. Between the ages of 16 when I was able to borrow money (with a co-signer, my parents weren't overly responsible either) and 20 I piled up 45,000 in debt, less than half of which was in student loans. At 20, I realized I didn't want to live like that anymore, so I took a break from school and am happy to say that at this time I owe less than 5000 dollars which I plan to have paid off by the end of 2011. I then plan on returning to school out of my own pocket. As far as I'm concerned, I never want a loan again, including a mortgage. I have found that anything worth having is worth waiting for and I really wish that is something this country would learn on both an individual and governmental level.

    I own up to the mistakes I've made in my life, but I do see a problem in the business sector as well. There is absolutely NO way I should have been given loans with the small amount of income I had (Approximately $1000) a month, yet time and time again the bank gave me money for not only cars, but several "signature loans" as well. This is unfortunately all to common of a problem. I was lucky that I was able to pull myself up by my bootstraps, but unfortunately many others aren't that lucky.

  6. #16
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    bbc, earlier this month:

    Surgeons say patients in some parts of England have spent months waiting in pain because of delayed operations or new restrictions on who qualifies for treatment. In several areas routine surgery was put on hold for months, while in many others new thresholds for hip and knee replacements have been introduced. The moves are part of the NHS drive to find 20bn efficiency savings by 2015. The government said performance should be measured by outcomes not numbers.

    Surgeons have described the delays faced by patients as "devastating and cruel". Peter Kay, the president of the British Orthopaedic Association (BOA), says they've become increasingly frustrated that hip and knee replacements are being targeted as a way of finding savings. GPs were told not so send as many patients to hospital, maybe to delay referrals until the end of the financial year while perhaps introducing thresholds for surgery.

    Overall, 692 surgeons in England sent the BBC information about the policy on hip and knee replacement of their local Primary Care Trust (PCT). Between them they covered the majority of PCTs in England. 106 surgeons told the BBC routine operations had been put on hold in their area. Others described new limits on when patients qualify for hip or knee replacements. 152 specialists said patients now have to be more disabled or in greater pain, and 118 told us hip and knee surgery had been regarded as a procedure of low priority.

    A number of PCTs have been explicit about their decisions to put all routine operations on hold for several months up to April to help balance their budgets by the end of the financial year. They include Warrington, Sheffield, Eastern and Coastal Kent, Bury and Warwickshire. Alex Waring, a patient in Warwickshire, was told he was being referred for an urgent knee replacement in August of last year. Now he looks at that letter with bewilderment as more than seven months later he is still waiting for surgery. Mr Waring has already had one successful knee replacement and says he is in daily pain waiting for this second operation. "It's excruciating sometimes to put it mildly. And it affects you at the times when you're not expecting it. I get off my mobile scooter and nearly fall over because my knee is gone, the pain, you've to sit there until the pain just goes away."

    Putting routine operations on hold means that GPs simply stop referring their patients for surgery. So although a patient might be waiting longer, this isn't recorded in the official waiting statistics. Another way of adding invisible waiting time into the system is to implement stricter new criteria which have the effect of delaying the point when a patient can be referred for treatment. An investigation by the BBC also found evidence in many PCT board papers of new thresholds being added for hip and knee replacements.
    BBC News - Surgeons raise alarm over waiting

  7. #17
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    I understand and disagree with those practices. Honestly I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the medical billing business to say with any certainty that there is any one right way. I however know of many people who have had coverage problems with private insurance as well. At the end of the day though, I find healthcare and education to be our biggest priorities in this country and find it ridiculous that many have had to give up ones livelihood just to live. Again, I don't know how to fix this problem, which is why I won't advocate something I don't understand strongly enough. I also believe that people need to get their priorities in order. Many CAN afford insurance but choose not to, opting for new cars, flat screen tv's and houses a quarter of a million dollars out of their budget. At the end of the day, I don't think anything will change in this country unless we have a serious look at our priorities.
    The "living within your means" argument. What stuns me into silence is the people who whole-heartedly believe that they have a natural born right to new cars, big homes, flat screens, a luxury boat, etc. Those people who stand in front of their flat screens and video games systems for an interview scheduled so they can complain about a lack of electricity vouchers...it turns me off to the whole system. Perhaps mandatory classes on money management and priorities are in order for those using the system to "survive". Or, maybe a societal shift in values away from materialistic crap?

    To idealistic, right?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  8. #18
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The "living within your means" argument. What stuns me into silence is the people who whole-heartedly believe that they have a natural born right to new cars, big homes, flat screens, a luxury boat, etc. Those people who stand in front of their flat screens and video games systems for an interview scheduled so they can complain about a lack of electricity vouchers...it turns me off to the whole system. Perhaps mandatory classes on money management and priorities are in order for those using the system to "survive". Or, maybe a societal shift in values away from materialistic crap?
    To idealistic, right?
    ^^This

    It would have to be a drastic cultural change though. Materialism is ingrained in our consumer culture.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #19
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    ^^This

    It would have to be a drastic cultural change though. Materialism is ingrained in our consumer culture.
    You ain't kidding. It drives me crazy sometimes. I'm a money hoarder and it drives my boyfriend crazy. I'll have a few thousand in savings and half that in the bank, but to me that's "broke". Meanwhile he'll keep a couple hundred for emergencies and spend the rest on crap we don't need or don't have room for...just to own it.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  10. #20
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: Vermont Senate Passes Legislation That Moves State Toward Single-Payor Health Sys

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    You ain't kidding. It drives me crazy sometimes. I'm a money hoarder and it drives my boyfriend crazy. I'll have a few thousand in savings and half that in the bank, but to me that's "broke". Meanwhile he'll keep a couple hundred for emergencies and spend the rest on crap we don't need or don't have room for...just to own it.
    I'm Asian, and it's a general stereotype that Asians are super-cheap. My dad is an example of the exact opposite of what your boyfriend is. Instead of buying new things every once in awhile he'll collect used junk just to have it. He's using a desktop computer that's more than a decade old and runs windows 2000. He's worn the same clothes for like 10 years. He got a fish tank off a listing on craigslist just because someone didn't want their fishtank anymore. And he decided to have pet fish AFTER he got a fish tank. That's like deciding to start a family because you bought a minivan.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •