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Thread: Obama to speak on birth certificate

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Show me proof. All police work involves following leads some good some bad.
    It has been proven that most information obtained from torture is unreliable. Torture victims tend to tell the interrogators what they want to hear to stop the torture which leads to bad leads. Following mostly bad leads is a waste of resources and time. Bush's policies gave Bin Laden many years of life that he shouldn't have had. If that makes you feel good then so be it.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    It has been proven that most information obtained from torture is unreliable. Torture victims tend to tell the interrogators what they want to hear to stop the torture which leads to bad leads. Following mostly bad leads is a waste of resources and time. Bush's policies gave Bin Laden many years of life that he shouldn't have had. If that makes you feel good then so be it.
    Proven by who? People who are against it?

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    It has been proven that most information obtained from torture is unreliable. Torture victims tend to tell the interrogators what they want to hear to stop the torture which leads to bad leads. Following mostly bad leads is a waste of resources and time. Bush's policies gave Bin Laden many years of life that he shouldn't have had. If that makes you feel good then so be it.
    Its a waste of band with Harry.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    It has been proven that most information obtained from torture is unreliable. Torture victims tend to tell the interrogators what they want to hear to stop the torture which leads to bad leads. Following mostly bad leads is a waste of resources and time. Bush's policies gave Bin Laden many years of life that he shouldn't have had. If that makes you feel good then so be it.
    Its a waste of bandwidth Harry.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Proven by who? People who are against it?
    By people that have been tortured. Do you really want me to give you a name? It's one of you guys. If someone has your right nut in a vise you will tell them whatever they want to hear. You will give them names of anyone to make them stop. Torture is a horrible method of getting information. The information is unreliable.

    It's almost like you are intellectually challenged. Of course most birthers are. Trump tells you torture is good and you believe him
    Senator McCain stated that “information provided by torture is deliberately misleading. Mistreatment of enemy prisoners endangers our own troops, who might someday be held captive.”

    C. Dixon Osburn, Director of Law & Security at Human Rights First, praised Senator McCain’s comments: “Interrogators and intelligence experts agree that torture is counterproductive, unreliable, illegal and immoral. Senator McCain knows from personal experience that no nation should ever condone torture.


    http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/03/hbc-90004644

    Information Secured Through Torture Proved Unreliable, CIA Concluded

    By Scott Horton

    Peter Finn and Joby Warrick at the Washington Post:

    When CIA officials subjected their first high-value captive, Abu Zubaida, to waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods, they were convinced that they had in their custody an al-Qaeda leader who knew details of operations yet to be unleashed, and they were facing increasing pressure from the White House to get those secrets out of him. The methods succeeded in breaking him, and the stories he told of al-Qaeda terrorism plots sent CIA officers around the globe chasing leads

    In the end, though, not a single significant plot was foiled as a result of Abu Zubaida’s tortured confessions, according to former senior government officials who closely followed the interrogations. Nearly all of the leads attained through the harsh measures quickly evaporated, while most of the useful information from Abu Zubaida — chiefly names of al-Qaeda members and associates — was obtained before waterboarding was introduced, they said.
    Last edited by Dirty Harry; 05-16-11 at 03:22 PM.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    So, is it wrong that Bush endorsed torture?? Is it ALSO wrong that Obama continued this approach?
    Torture is a horrible method of getting reliable information and should not be used.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Torture is a horrible method of getting reliable information and should not be used.

    So who'd we torture? And what methods?


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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    By people that have been tortured. Do you really want me to give you a name? It's one of you guys. If someone has your right nut in a vise you will tell them whatever they want to hear. You will give them names of anyone to make them stop. Torture is a horrible method of getting information. The information is unreliable.

    It's almost like you are intellectually challenged. Of course most birthers are. Trump tells you torture is good and you believe him


    Information Secured Through Torture Proved Unreliable, CIA Concluded?By Scott Horton (Harper's Magazine)
    Thats credible a Bush bashing piece.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Torture is a horrible method of getting reliable information and should not be used.
    Thats right. Please mister terrorist give us information please. That will get us such credible information.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    Actually, according to numerous government sources including within the Obama Administration the string of information that led to Bin Laden's death began in 2004. I'll let you put together who was President at that time.

    Let me inform you a bit about intelligence gathering, since you appear to be completely ignorant of it. It is not a situation where you recieve a piece of information and then bust in commando style like some movie. Various strands of intelligence are gathered over significant amount of time from various sources. As strands begin to be discovered in a repeating fashion then interrogation can be steered towards expanding upon those and the information can be floated past higher importance detainee's to see what comes up. Information is build upon layer by layer, with multiple verifications and redundancies in hopes of assuring that no action is being done on bad or faulty intel.

    That's just mostly from interrogations, and not even getting into gathering the information from assets, ground intel, survellance, raids, etc. It all plays into it.

    Bush likely didn't act in 2004 or 2006 because the intel was still loose, still in its infantile stages of being worked into the string that eventually brought him down. Something like an allias that comes up repeatedly that leads to another allias that leads to a connection to someone which leads to another connection which leads to a name for the first allias and so on and so forth, building and checking and verifying things.

    Bush doesn't deserve all the credit, and to that extent neither does Obama. Most goes to the men and women of our intelligence fields and the military. But whatever credit you are going to give to Presidents for making this happen, it has to go to Bush as well as Obama...not just one of the other...because itw as the policies, actions, and men put in power by both that eventually led to this capture.
    Riiiight ... Bush, the shmuck who couldn't capture bin Laden when he had him cornered in Tora Bora ... the putz who couldn't find the WMD he invaded Iraq over ... the yutz who couldn't eat a pretzel without passing out. Please, if Bush were still president, Osama bin Laden would still be alive.

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