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Thread: Obama to speak on birth certificate

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    The good info or the phoney information the terrorists gave up to stop the torture.
    The info that got us to Osama

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by shintao View Post
    He doesn't understand the next question, "If Bush had the infromation of where Bin laden was, why didn't he get him?"
    It takes time to confirm and find

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No proof Obama did anything?!?!?!?!?!?

    That is one of the most amazing things ever written on any message board by anyone on any topic ever.
    Your avoiding showing any proof is typical

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, the courier helped to lead us to Bin Laden, and the two senior leaders may have acknowledged knowing the courier.

    It does not say that they led us to the courier as a result of being water boarded.



    That was one man's opinion.


    that was someone else's opinion, in the same article.

    That's why it was entitled "Bin Laden death rekindles torture debate" instead of Bin Laden death supports waterboarding.
    Correct but I have seen no other explanation for how we found Bin Laden. The Information helped us find the right people so we could watch and wait

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The info that got us to Osama
    How many innocent names did the tortured terrorists give up before they gave up the right one? If they did at all. Torturing detainees creates mountains of phoney and unusable information. It wastes time and resources to follow up all the bad intel. If anything, torturing suspects wasted years of effort to get Bin Laden.
    People under torture will say anything and everything to get the torture to stop. Most of what they say is what they think the torturers want to hear. And most of it is lies.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    How many innocent names did the tortured terrorists give up before they gave up the right one? If they did at all. Torturing detainees creates mountains of phoney and unusable information. It wastes time and resources to follow up all the bad intel. If anything, torturing suspects wasted years of effort to get Bin Laden.
    People under torture will say anything and everything to get the torture to stop. Most of what they say is what they think the torturers want to hear. And most of it is lies.
    That is true but they are leads and the authorities check them out and when they get a true one they move as is what happened to get Bin Laden. That is how investigative work is done.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    That is true but they are leads and the authorities check them out and when they get a true one they move as is what happened to get Bin Laden. That is how investigative work is done.
    Torture wasted time and resources. Checking out thousands of bogus leads cost us years in finding Bin Laden. Had proper interrogation techniques been used Bin Laden would have been killed years ago. Bad information is worse than no information at all.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Torture wasted time and resources. Checking out thousands of bogus leads cost us years in finding Bin Laden. Had proper interrogation techniques been used Bin Laden would have been killed years ago. Bad information is worse than no information at all.
    So, is it wrong that Bush endorsed torture?? Is it ALSO wrong that Obama continued this approach?

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    In the video posted Bush clearly says he gave up on OBL. Guess some folks just cannot understand Bush Speak
    Your video does not in any way have Bush clearly saying he gaveu p on searching for OBL. It has him stating that in terms of threat he was not that worried at that point about OBL, which was correct. Al-Qaeda as a whole by that point was more of a threat than OBL as an individual due to the fact that the United States actions and search for him had significantly hampered his operational ability.

    Not focusing fully on a single individiual in terms of their threat to the United States is not the same as "giving up on them".

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    He gave the order.

    According to you, the information was gathered while Bush was president -- why didn't he give the order?
    Actually, according to numerous government sources including within the Obama Administration the string of information that led to Bin Laden's death began in 2004. I'll let you put together who was President at that time.

    Let me inform you a bit about intelligence gathering, since you appear to be completely ignorant of it. It is not a situation where you recieve a piece of information and then bust in commando style like some movie. Various strands of intelligence are gathered over significant amount of time from various sources. As strands begin to be discovered in a repeating fashion then interrogation can be steered towards expanding upon those and the information can be floated past higher importance detainee's to see what comes up. Information is build upon layer by layer, with multiple verifications and redundancies in hopes of assuring that no action is being done on bad or faulty intel.

    That's just mostly from interrogations, and not even getting into gathering the information from assets, ground intel, survellance, raids, etc. It all plays into it.

    Bush likely didn't act in 2004 or 2006 because the intel was still loose, still in its infantile stages of being worked into the string that eventually brought him down. Something like an allias that comes up repeatedly that leads to another allias that leads to a connection to someone which leads to another connection which leads to a name for the first allias and so on and so forth, building and checking and verifying things.

    Bush doesn't deserve all the credit, and to that extent neither does Obama. Most goes to the men and women of our intelligence fields and the military. But whatever credit you are going to give to Presidents for making this happen, it has to go to Bush as well as Obama...not just one of the other...because itw as the policies, actions, and men put in power by both that eventually led to this capture.

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    Re: Obama to speak on birth certificate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry View Post
    Torture wasted time and resources. Checking out thousands of bogus leads cost us years in finding Bin Laden. Had proper interrogation techniques been used Bin Laden would have been killed years ago. Bad information is worse than no information at all.
    Show me proof. All police work involves following leads some good some bad.

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