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Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read more:

Renae

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Democrats still scarred over the town hall fury that inflamed the health care debate two summers ago and came to symbolize the unpopularity of that legislation are hoping Republicans suffer a similar fate over their deficit-reduction plan that would revamp social safety-net programs.
Democratic lawmakers and their liberal supporters are trying to ignite a storm of protest at town hall meetings being held by Republicans during the current congressional recess that they hope will give them momentum going into the 2012 presidential election season.


Read more: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate - FoxNews.com

So Astroturfing?

MoveOn last week reportedly urged its members to turn out at town halls and ask Republicans about plans to cut Medicare and Medicaid.

Read more: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate - FoxNews.com

Oh and scare tactics!

Americans United for Change, a D.C.-based liberal group, has unleashed robo-calls in 23 Republican-held districts. The group has also targeted four lawmakers in particular with TV ads: Ryan and Reps. Sean Duffy of Wisconsin; Chip Cravaack of Minnesota and Steve King of Iowa.
In a statement, Tom McMahon, the group's executive director, asked, "What are Republicans in Congress thinking, demanding that our most vulnerable citizens make more sacrifices but millionaires and big corporations to make less?"
As part of its effort to hold 25 House Republicans' feet to the fire, the DCCC released an ad showing the elderly stripping at a house party, selling lemonade and struggling to mow lawns to pay for their health care under the Ryan plan.


Read more: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate - FoxNews.com

Basically the left's position is to make all of us pay more for everything, (cause that's what happens when you tax businesses, YOU pay more for their goods and services) to keep unsustainable welfare programs running.


Got it. And people actually think the liberals care about the poor?
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

I read this, it's not unexpected. They want everyone to think that Republicans kill puppies, old people and children.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Got it. And people actually think the liberals care about the poor?

"If you do this the country will crumble"

"This option is unsustainable"

"These people do not care about the country"

It's all rhetoric and it's useless. Post a fact or statistic at some point to back anything you say up?


I read this, it's not unexpected. They want everyone to think that Republicans kill puppies, old people and children.

The's funny considering the post above you which says:

1) Liberals use scare tactics
2) Liberals do not care about the poor
3) Liberals support an unsustainable system
4) Liberals want people to pay more for everything

Yeah, we are the ones who attack the other party by asking questions about cutting Medicare.
 
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Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

"If you do this the country will crumble"

"This option is unsustainable"

"These people do not care about the country"

It's all rhetoric and it's useless. Post a fact or statistic at some point to back anything you say up?




The's funny considering the post above you which says:

1) Liberals use scare tactics
2) Liberals do not care about the poor
3) Liberals support an unsustainable system
4) Liberals want people to pay more for everything

Yeah, we are the ones who attack the other party by asking questions about cutting Medicare.

WE CANNOT AFFORD MEDICARE.

Medicare, like SS and Medicaide was previous generations allowing politicians to bribe them with our kids and grand kids money. It's time to end the BS.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Medicare needs to have cuts. All programs do. Cuts in funds don't have to mean cuts in service. What is SHOULD mean is that departments start managing their funds better. Less redundancy, less red-tape, a more watchful eye. A harder line on fraud, even. When pennies get scarce we tend to watch them more closely. It's about darn time we started making them watch their pennies. It shouldn't have taken a 1/3rd+ increase in our total debt load and states on the verge of bankruptcy for people to start realizing that money must be managed more effectively. Nothing should be safe...that includes tax breaks, subsidies, entitlement programs, educational funding, defense...everything. And those making the budgets need to strip it down, start from scratch and make a plan based on what is available, not what we have come to demand as "necessary" (i.e. I-Pads for every student in a 10k+ school district).
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

WE CANNOT AFFORD MEDICARE.

Medicare, like SS and Medicaide was previous generations allowing politicians to bribe them with our kids and grand kids money. It's time to end the BS.

Oh guys, we cannot afford Medicare. Thanks for clearing that up MrVicchio. You know, before you typed in all caps I thought we could afford it.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

I read this, it's not unexpected. They want everyone to think that Republicans kill puppies, old people and children.

And women! Don't forget we hate women!
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

And women! Don't forget we hate women!

So I guess I hate myself then, eh?
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Medicare needs to have cuts. All programs do. Cuts in funds don't have to mean cuts in service. What is SHOULD mean is that departments start managing their funds better. Less redundancy, less red-tape, a more watchful eye. A harder line on fraud, even. When pennies get scarce we tend to watch them more closely. It's about darn time we started making them watch their pennies. It shouldn't have taken a 1/3rd+ increase in our total debt load and states on the verge of bankruptcy for people to start realizing that money must be managed more effectively. Nothing should be safe...that includes tax breaks, subsidies, entitlement programs, educational funding, defense...everything. And those making the budgets need to strip it down, start from scratch and make a plan based on what is available, not what we have come to demand as "necessary" (i.e. I-Pads for every student in a 10k+ school district).

It's a shame you're probably a Cowboys fan... I'd really like you otherwise ;)
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

It's a shame you're probably a Cowboys fan... I'd really like you otherwise ;)

Love the 'boys, hate Jerry and Garrett....does that help any?? :peace
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

I wish people could see the medicare/medicaid abuses that occur every day. Im not even talking about the outright fraud. I am talking about a physically healthy 20 year old malingerer that has over 50 visits to the ER (complete with lab work, CT scans, and hospitalizations) in 6 months. Rough estimate is he has cost the taxpayers well over $200,000.00 in 6 mos. And thats just a starter. Multiply that person by thousands. In a single county. Taxpayers pay for it. Hospitals pass on unfunded costs to other patients.

People want to make this a black and white issue and I guess in a way it is. Either we fix the system or collapse. Maintenance of the status quo is national suicide. Maybe the Ryan plan isnt THE answer...but continuing the same mindless **** we have been doing for decades damn sure isnt. Neither is playing politics over this issue.

People that want to make this a rich vs poor issue (more of the mindless stupidity promoted by politicians and their ****ing brain-dead ideologues) have obviously not talked to many middle income Americans. Insurance costs are climbing. Healthcare costs are being impacted by the newly passed healthcare bill.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Oh guys, we cannot afford Medicare. Thanks for clearing that up MrVicchio. You know, before you typed in all caps I thought we could afford it.

I'm sorry, $14,000,000,000,000.00+ in debt obviously hasn't gotten through to you yet.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

And women! Don't forget we hate women!

You don't hate women. But your (republcian) polices do effect them adversly and more than other groups.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

I'm sorry, $14,000,000,000,000.00+ in debt obviously hasn't gotten through to you yet.

Don't worry, you'll forget about the second republcians are back in charge. :coffeepap
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

I'm sorry, $14,000,000,000,000.00+ in debt obviously hasn't gotten through to you yet.

Oh that was Medicare that caused that? I was not aware that Medicare is the reason we 14 trillion in debt. Thanks for the info and the great source. You're full of so many bull**** statistics (almost like a Snapple bottle but instead of facts it is just partisan hackery).
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

WE CANNOT AFFORD MEDICARE.

Medicare, like SS and Medicaide was previous generations allowing politicians to bribe them with our kids and grand kids money. It's time to end the BS.

Liberals are telling everyone that their medicare will be replace with vouchers and private insurance companies. Please tell me which part of that is not true?
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

I wish people could see the medicare/medicaid abuses that occur every day. Im not even talking about the outright fraud. I am talking about a physically healthy 20 year old malingerer that has over 50 visits to the ER (complete with lab work, CT scans, and hospitalizations) in 6 months. Rough estimate is he has cost the taxpayers well over $200,000.00 in 6 mos. And thats just a starter. Multiply that person by thousands. In a single county. Taxpayers pay for it. Hospitals pass on unfunded costs to other patients.

People want to make this a black and white issue and I guess in a way it is. Either we fix the system or collapse. Maintenance of the status quo is national suicide. Maybe the Ryan plan isnt THE answer...but continuing the same mindless **** we have been doing for decades damn sure isnt. Neither is playing politics over this issue.

People that want to make this a rich vs poor issue (more of the mindless stupidity promoted by politicians and their ****ing brain-dead ideologues) have obviously not talked to many middle income Americans. Insurance costs are climbing. Healthcare costs are being impacted by the newly passed healthcare bill.

Oh surely know that doesn't really happen. And any amount of fraud is okay as long as the sick people are still taken care of. We absolutely cannot risk somebody having to pay out of pocket for perscriptions to counter act the side effects of their other perscriptions..

(/sarcasm)

Seriously, though. The system is broken...and so is medicine. We are programmed to look for a pill or a surgery or a procedure to solve everything. I know parents who will rush their child to the ER if their temp is 99.1. I know people who take three different medications do deal with the side effects of another medication that they "must" take. I know people who have paid $15k to have gastric bypass surgery, but have never even attempted a diet and exercise plan because it's "too hard". I'll get off my naturalist's soap box now, just food for thought....
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

I wish people could see the medicare/medicaid abuses that occur every day. Im not even talking about the outright fraud. I am talking about a physically healthy 20 year old malingerer that has over 50 visits to the ER (complete with lab work, CT scans, and hospitalizations) in 6 months. Rough estimate is he has cost the taxpayers well over $200,000.00 in 6 mos. And thats just a starter. Multiply that person by thousands. In a single county. Taxpayers pay for it. Hospitals pass on unfunded costs to other patients.

People want to make this a black and white issue and I guess in a way it is. Either we fix the system or collapse. Maintenance of the status quo is national suicide. Maybe the Ryan plan isnt THE answer...but continuing the same mindless **** we have been doing for decades damn sure isnt. Neither is playing politics over this issue.

People that want to make this a rich vs poor issue (more of the mindless stupidity promoted by politicians and their ****ing brain-dead ideologues) have obviously not talked to many middle income Americans. Insurance costs are climbing. Healthcare costs are being impacted by the newly passed healthcare bill.

Abuse happens with insurance companies and the private secotr as well. It's a constant battle on all fronts. Anyone regardless of wealth will take advantage where they can. not every single person of course, but enough in each demographic to make it significant.

What makes it rich versus poor is the number who ingore the abuse the wealth commit while over emphaziing the abuse made at the lower end. We see this all the time.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Abuse happens with insurance companies and the private secotr as well. It's a constant battle on all fronts. Anyone regardless of wealth will take advantage where they can. not every single person of course, but enough in each demographic to make it significant.

What makes it rich versus poor is the number who ingore the abuse the wealth commit while over emphaziing the abuse made at the lower end. We see this all the time.

I'm a "paying" patient when I go to the ER because I have insurance and pay my copay up front. At the hospital closest to our apartment the bill I receive for services is 25% higher than the bill a medicare patient would receive. That is to say, the total cost for my visit, before insurance is billed, before the copay, before "discounts" is 25% higher than the exact same procedure for a medicare patient.

Yeah, we'll scream when it happens on the low end. I scream when it happens with insurance too, but you know what's funny? All of the legislation that came with Obama care and not ONE law, program, or idea included to eradicate fraud in private or public insurance.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Abuse happens with insurance companies and the private secotr as well. It's a constant battle on all fronts. Anyone regardless of wealth will take advantage where they can. not every single person of course, but enough in each demographic to make it significant.

What makes it rich versus poor is the number who ingore the abuse the wealth commit while over emphaziing the abuse made at the lower end. We see this all the time.

Thats horse****. What makes it the 'rich versus poor' is politicians and groups that know all they have to do is bang their little tin drums and their mindless pathetic little puppets will repeat it and make it all that matters. We saw it during the last budget debate and we see it with the pending budget debate. We will see it in the 2012 elections. We see it every day on this site.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Don't worry, you'll forget about the second republcians are back in charge. :coffeepap

That's a laughable lie and a bit of projection from you. I've always been for small government and a balanced budget. 60%+ of the Federal Budget goes to the welfare state.

60%+.

It HAS to end, whether you want to admit it or not.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

That's a laughable lie and a bit of projection from you. I've always been for small government and a balanced budget. 60%+ of the Federal Budget goes to the welfare state.

60%+.

It HAS to end, whether you want to admit it or not.

Can speak to what you've always been, but the deficit is not new, and republcians were less concerned about it on the whole when they wer in charge and will likely be less concerned if they regain power. This is history.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Can speak to what you've always been, but the deficit is not new, and republcians were less concerned about it on the whole when they wer in charge and will likely be less concerned if they regain power. This is history.

Historically we haven't seen a 1/4th increase in the total national debt over 3 years...well...at any point in time, really. In fact, though Bush is the worst in comparison, it took 8 years for the national debt to increase 26% under Bush, a time during which we were funding two wars and increasing spending on intelligence and border security, two areas which desperately needed help after 9/11 (not that I'm advocating funding to solve problems, but it's what happened, so..).

So over the course of 8 years (assuming there is a second term), should we expect the pattern to continue? Will we see a 50% increase in the national debt? 30%? Some of us were shouting about spending before Bush left office (some of us were too young to understand spending when Clinton was in office). Just because the elected officials are finally doing their jobs (however half-arsed), doesn't mean those electing them weren't fighting for it for some time.
 
Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Historically we haven't seen a 1/4th increase in the total national debt over 3 years...well...at any point in time, really. In fact, though Bush is the worst in comparison, it took 8 years for the national debt to increase 26% under Bush, a time during which we were funding two wars and increasing spending on intelligence and border security, two areas which desperately needed help after 9/11 (not that I'm advocating funding to solve problems, but it's what happened, so..).

So over the course of 8 years (assuming there is a second term), should we expect the pattern to continue? Will we see a 50% increase in the national debt? 30%? Some of us were shouting about spending before Bush left office (some of us were too young to understand spending when Clinton was in office). Just because the elected officials are finally doing their jobs (however half-arsed), doesn't mean those electing them weren't fighting for it for some time.

Again, and I feel like I have to do this every time, but there is no modern precedent for the crisis Obama came into office facing either. It is hard to blame him for the spike in national debt when most of it came from bailouts, tarp, and stimulus (something most economists agreed was necessary to avoid a catastrophic recession). So, in my opinion, it's kind of a dick thing to do to hand a guy a country that is falling apart and then 3 years later say, "man this country looks like hell" when it isn't much better. The economy will come back in due time and has already shown spikes of improvement, but budget concerns do need to be addressed as well as streamlining health care.

*Edit:

I would compare it to blaming Bush for 9/11 when in reality it was not something he likely could have prevented. And yes, some people did blame him for it, but those people are dicks.
 
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Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

Again, and I feel like I have to do this every time, but there is no modern precedent for the crisis Obama came into office facing either. It is hard to blame him for the spike in national debt when most of it came from bailouts, tarp, and stimulus (something most economists agreed was necessary to avoid a catastrophic recession). So, in my opinion, it's kind of a dick thing to do to hand a guy a country that is falling apart and then 3 years later say, "man this country looks like ****" when it isn't much better. The economy will come back in due time and has already shown spikes of improvement, but budget concerns do need to be addressed as well as streamlining health care.

I think it's hard to ignore something like the Great Depression...25% unemployment, a 50% decrease in GDP, government cheese, shanty towns, etc. This is NOTHING compared to what they dealt with in 1929 and beyond. This is paltry by comparison. Unfortunately, I cannot find charts that go beyond 1940, so I cannot bring up any sort of comparisons regarding the national debt before and after.

Not sure where we get $4.1 trillion from the spending programs you listed above, by the way. Tarp was $700 billion, the stimulus was $1.2 trillion. Of the tarp funds, $118.5 billion have been returned or repaid. Of the stimulus funds, nothing has been returned. So that's a grand total of $1.19 trillion spent on those programs. Are you saying we paid almost 400% interest on that money over 3 years time?
 
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