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Thread: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read more:

  1. #31
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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm blaming Obama or praising Bush or whatever it is you think I'm doing. I threw Bush under the bus too, with his 26% increase in debt (as well as the legislature, which was controlled both by republicans and then by democrats during his term as president). What I'm saying is, we've already seen a huge jump and the first term isn't over yet. We're creating budget and spending plans that do next to nothing for another 10 years to curb spending or elimnate debt. There are some that are trying but nobody is succeeding, and that's the problem. To say that spending won't continue at an astronomical level is pretty naive, IMO.
    You responded to me arguing republicans will forget this concern with the debt once they are elected. And argued it is worse under Obama. I don't believe this. I believe that the uproar is raised because of his party and not because of his actions (especially from conservatives and the tea party).

    And I don't really believe anyone of note is really trying. The only effort is to change where the money is spend and not to end spending.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by m4rgery View Post
    Ok, so what is your grand plan for reducing a trainwreck national debt if not cutting entitlement programs (and everything else as well)?


    ....and please, do try an answer that doesn't involve raising the taxes on those of us that pay them.
    Ive said it numerous times...across the board cuts...mandated by legislation. Kill off redundant federal systems. Once those mandated cuts are legislated and cant be undone then raise taxes with a realistic plan to pay off the debt in 10 years.

    Sorry...I dont play the mindless partisan bull**** games real well. I believe in cuts AND increased taxes as required. I just dont buy into the whiny "its not fair-blame and tax the rich and make them pay for the poor pathetic little creatures that cant be bothered to provide for themselves" bit.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    This is an partisan spin piece.

    There is no evidence that the elderly people speaking up at town hall meetings are liberal, conservative, or otherwise.

    Fox News proves once again that the reporting of News is not a priority.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Ive said it numerous times...across the board cuts...mandated by legislation. Kill off redundant federal systems. Once those mandated cuts are legislated and cant be undone then raise taxes with a realistic plan to pay off the debt in 10 years.

    Sorry...I dont play the mindless partisan bull**** games real well. I believe in cuts AND increased taxes as required. I just dont buy into the whiny "its not fair-blame and tax the rich and make them pay for the poor pathetic little creatures that cant be bothered to provide for themselves" bit.
    I agree that cuts must be made and taxes must be raised. I also agree that this needs to be done across the board, regardless of income. I do however have a problem with your statement, "I just dont buy into the whiny "its not fair-blame and tax the rich and make them pay for the poor pathetic little creatures that cant be bothered to provide for themselves" bit."

    I believe strongly in fiscal conservation, a very unpopular practice, in the government and one's personal life. I however find talk of this responsibility on both the personal and federal level to be mostly rhetoric. I can't tell you how many people I've met who bitch and moan about how our government needs to be responsible financially while living in a house they can't afford, driving 2 brand new cars, and basically keeping up with Jones'.

    I also believe that everyone must pay their fair share to solve this problem, but to act like there is a level playing field between the ultra rich and everyone below is, in my opinion, down right absurd. One just has to look at the number of CEO's and other corporate directors who are now running our government organizations (FDA is a great example off the top of my head) and the legislation that follows. This is equally true in both parties.

    I have said on many occasions that I believe the first step to solving our financial problems is to put the American people, not corporate backed lobbyists, back in the drivers seat. Again, both the left and right are guilty of this.

    I believe making elections publicly funded, legislating a determined campaign period, and ending corporate personhood are just as important as tax increases or spending cuts. These three things, I believe, would lead to a much more honest election process and government.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    And women! Don't forget we hate women!
    And baby chicks.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So I guess I hate myself then, eh?
    No, you've been captured and brainwashed for our amusement.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    I agree that cuts must be made and taxes must be raised. I also agree that this needs to be done across the board, regardless of income. I do however have a problem with your statement, "I just dont buy into the whiny "its not fair-blame and tax the rich and make them pay for the poor pathetic little creatures that cant be bothered to provide for themselves" bit."

    I believe strongly in fiscal conservation, a very unpopular practice, in the government and one's personal life. I however find talk of this responsibility on both the personal and federal level to be mostly rhetoric. I can't tell you how many people I've met who bitch and moan about how our government needs to be responsible financially while living in a house they can't afford, driving 2 brand new cars, and basically keeping up with Jones'.

    I also believe that everyone must pay their fair share to solve this problem, but to act like there is a level playing field between the ultra rich and everyone below is, in my opinion, down right absurd. One just has to look at the number of CEO's and other corporate directors who are now running our government organizations (FDA is a great example off the top of my head) and the legislation that follows. This is equally true in both parties.

    I have said on many occasions that I believe the first step to solving our financial problems is to put the American people, not corporate backed lobbyists, back in the drivers seat. Again, both the left and right are guilty of this.

    I believe making elections publicly funded, legislating a determined campaign period, and ending corporate personhood are just as important as tax increases or spending cuts. These three things, I believe, would lead to a much more honest election process and government.
    I dont think we disagree as much as you might. I believe in responsibility...accountability. Personal as well as government...more so. And it surprises some to know I believe very strongly in effective social services provided by first individuals, then churches, then the state (and never the Fed). I give of my time and resources because it is what I believe in and how I choose to live my life. I dont need the government to tell me what is right. I dont WANT the government to do it. I think we as a society are at our greatest when we give...not because we have to but because we want to. I think that is frequently demonstrated when the world experiences disasters.

    I also believe that our reckless offering of social services has taken us as a country to the verge of bankruptcy but also has enabled many capable individuals to become crippled dependent pets who dont challenge themselves. They accept that they 'cant' provide for themselves...and that its
    not their fault. The true crime is that those people leech away resources from those that truly need them. We arent a stronger country because our welfare state tendency...we are much much weaker.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I dont think we disagree as much as you might. I believe in responsibility...accountability. Personal as well as government...more so. And it surprises some to know I believe very strongly in effective social services provided by first individuals, then churches, then the state (and never the Fed). I give of my time and resources because it is what I believe in and how I choose to live my life. I dont need the government to tell me what is right. I dont WANT the government to do it. I think we as a society are at our greatest when we give...not because we have to but because we want to. I think that is frequently demonstrated when the world experiences disasters.

    I also believe that our reckless offering of social services has taken us as a country to the verge of bankruptcy but also has enabled many capable individuals to become crippled dependent pets who dont challenge themselves. They accept that they 'cant' provide for themselves...and that its
    not their fault. The true crime is that those people leech away resources from those that truly need them. We arent a stronger country because our welfare state tendency...we are much much weaker.
    You're right. We do agree on a lot from a strictly fiscal standpoint. I think there is a ton of redundancy and even more pointless waste to most if not all government programs. Where we differ is on the social aspect. I too donate my time and money when I'm able to worthy causes. I do however see things such as healthcare and unemployment as necessary safety nets for the good of the people as a whole. I think of it as donating my tax dollars to a worthy cause. I also donate some of my taxes to causes I don't find to be as necessary, such as an imperialistic presense in countries the world over. This is the nature of the beast. We all pay for things we don't approve of. That is not to say that the reach of these programs are not at times over stepping their bounds or that the system isn't taken advantage of. I just find it to be a lesser of two evils. I find the theory that a government without these safety nets working perfectly is a bit utopian. There will always be give and take.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I read this, it's not unexpected. They want everyone to think that Republicans kill puppies, old people and children.
    Wrong.... everyone knows that Republicans generally care about puppies.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Wrong.... everyone knows that Republicans generally care about puppies.
    Wrong....we steal puppy food away and give it to seniors after we steal their social security checks. On top of that, we withhold the can openers until they give us what's in their cookie jars.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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