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Thread: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read more:

  1. #21
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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Don't worry, you'll forget about the second republcians are back in charge.
    That's a laughable lie and a bit of projection from you. I've always been for small government and a balanced budget. 60%+ of the Federal Budget goes to the welfare state.

    60%+.

    It HAS to end, whether you want to admit it or not.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    That's a laughable lie and a bit of projection from you. I've always been for small government and a balanced budget. 60%+ of the Federal Budget goes to the welfare state.

    60%+.

    It HAS to end, whether you want to admit it or not.
    Can speak to what you've always been, but the deficit is not new, and republcians were less concerned about it on the whole when they wer in charge and will likely be less concerned if they regain power. This is history.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Can speak to what you've always been, but the deficit is not new, and republcians were less concerned about it on the whole when they wer in charge and will likely be less concerned if they regain power. This is history.
    Historically we haven't seen a 1/4th increase in the total national debt over 3 years...well...at any point in time, really. In fact, though Bush is the worst in comparison, it took 8 years for the national debt to increase 26% under Bush, a time during which we were funding two wars and increasing spending on intelligence and border security, two areas which desperately needed help after 9/11 (not that I'm advocating funding to solve problems, but it's what happened, so..).

    So over the course of 8 years (assuming there is a second term), should we expect the pattern to continue? Will we see a 50% increase in the national debt? 30%? Some of us were shouting about spending before Bush left office (some of us were too young to understand spending when Clinton was in office). Just because the elected officials are finally doing their jobs (however half-arsed), doesn't mean those electing them weren't fighting for it for some time.
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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Historically we haven't seen a 1/4th increase in the total national debt over 3 years...well...at any point in time, really. In fact, though Bush is the worst in comparison, it took 8 years for the national debt to increase 26% under Bush, a time during which we were funding two wars and increasing spending on intelligence and border security, two areas which desperately needed help after 9/11 (not that I'm advocating funding to solve problems, but it's what happened, so..).

    So over the course of 8 years (assuming there is a second term), should we expect the pattern to continue? Will we see a 50% increase in the national debt? 30%? Some of us were shouting about spending before Bush left office (some of us were too young to understand spending when Clinton was in office). Just because the elected officials are finally doing their jobs (however half-arsed), doesn't mean those electing them weren't fighting for it for some time.
    Again, and I feel like I have to do this every time, but there is no modern precedent for the crisis Obama came into office facing either. It is hard to blame him for the spike in national debt when most of it came from bailouts, tarp, and stimulus (something most economists agreed was necessary to avoid a catastrophic recession). So, in my opinion, it's kind of a dick thing to do to hand a guy a country that is falling apart and then 3 years later say, "man this country looks like hell" when it isn't much better. The economy will come back in due time and has already shown spikes of improvement, but budget concerns do need to be addressed as well as streamlining health care.

    *Edit:

    I would compare it to blaming Bush for 9/11 when in reality it was not something he likely could have prevented. And yes, some people did blame him for it, but those people are dicks.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 04-26-11 at 05:37 PM.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Again, and I feel like I have to do this every time, but there is no modern precedent for the crisis Obama came into office facing either. It is hard to blame him for the spike in national debt when most of it came from bailouts, tarp, and stimulus (something most economists agreed was necessary to avoid a catastrophic recession). So, in my opinion, it's kind of a dick thing to do to hand a guy a country that is falling apart and then 3 years later say, "man this country looks like ****" when it isn't much better. The economy will come back in due time and has already shown spikes of improvement, but budget concerns do need to be addressed as well as streamlining health care.
    I think it's hard to ignore something like the Great Depression...25% unemployment, a 50% decrease in GDP, government cheese, shanty towns, etc. This is NOTHING compared to what they dealt with in 1929 and beyond. This is paltry by comparison. Unfortunately, I cannot find charts that go beyond 1940, so I cannot bring up any sort of comparisons regarding the national debt before and after.

    Not sure where we get $4.1 trillion from the spending programs you listed above, by the way. Tarp was $700 billion, the stimulus was $1.2 trillion. Of the tarp funds, $118.5 billion have been returned or repaid. Of the stimulus funds, nothing has been returned. So that's a grand total of $1.19 trillion spent on those programs. Are you saying we paid almost 400% interest on that money over 3 years time?
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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Yes, this is definitely a fair and balanced characterization of what is happening by Fox News!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Thats horse****. What makes it the 'rich versus poor' is politicians and groups that know all they have to do is bang their little tin drums and their mindless pathetic little puppets will repeat it and make it all that matters. We saw it during the last budget debate and we see it with the pending budget debate. We will see it in the 2012 elections. We see it every day on this site.
    Ok, so what is your grand plan for reducing a trainwreck national debt if not cutting entitlement programs (and everything else as well)?


    ....and please, do try an answer that doesn't involve raising the taxes on those of us that pay them.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I read this, it's not unexpected. They want everyone to think that Republicans kill puppies, old people and children.

    You mean like when the democrats wanted to kill off all of our elderly with "death panels." Psst, your hypocrisy is showing.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Historically we haven't seen a 1/4th increase in the total national debt over 3 years...well...at any point in time, really. In fact, though Bush is the worst in comparison, it took 8 years for the national debt to increase 26% under Bush, a time during which we were funding two wars and increasing spending on intelligence and border security, two areas which desperately needed help after 9/11 (not that I'm advocating funding to solve problems, but it's what happened, so..).

    So over the course of 8 years (assuming there is a second term), should we expect the pattern to continue? Will we see a 50% increase in the national debt? 30%? Some of us were shouting about spending before Bush left office (some of us were too young to understand spending when Clinton was in office). Just because the elected officials are finally doing their jobs (however half-arsed), doesn't mean those electing them weren't fighting for it for some time.
    As the situation won't be the same, there's little reason to expect the same. Much like Reagan, Obama sought to spend us out of the recession. You might also note that Ryan voted for much of that spending as well. And that bush was doing a good bit up the spending on this before Obama was even elected.

    And this is the point. Objection is selective. Republicans when in office argued that deficit spending was OK. When not in power, it's not OK. If you don't see this, you will either be shocked once and if they get back in, or perhaps you'll accept it easier with them in charge. As none of this is new, I see nothing that has changed enough for either party to stop doing what they do.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Liberals Try to Rekindle Town Hall Fury That Inflamed Health Care Debate Read mo

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As the situation won't be the same, there's little reason to expect the same. Much like Reagan, Obama sought to spend us out of the recession. You might also note that Ryan voted for much of that spending as well. And that bush was doing a good bit up the spending on this before Obama was even elected.

    And this is the point. Objection is selective. Republicans when in office argued that deficit spending was OK. When not in power, it's not OK. If you don't see this, you will either be shocked once and if they get back in, or perhaps you'll accept it easier with them in charge. As none of this is new, I see nothing that has changed enough for either party to stop doing what they do.
    I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm blaming Obama or praising Bush or whatever it is you think I'm doing. I threw Bush under the bus too, with his 26% increase in debt (as well as the legislature, which was controlled both by republicans and then by democrats during his term as president). What I'm saying is, we've already seen a huge jump and the first term isn't over yet. We're creating budget and spending plans that do next to nothing for another 10 years to curb spending or elimnate debt. There are some that are trying but nobody is succeeding, and that's the problem. To say that spending won't continue at an astronomical level is pretty naive, IMO.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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