• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

Last edited:
McVeigh was first held in a supermax facility. Numerous other terrorists are held in supermax facilities. ADX Florence held McVeigh, it currently holds the people involved in the 93 trade center bombing, the Unabomber, etc.

I'm not talking about "Japs". This is about a stateless enemy who attacks US troops.

What about the people who attacked US troops at the German disco in the 80s? They attacked US troops overseas - do they deserve a trial or do they deserve to be detained indefinitely?

Prof, I have nothing against military tribunals. Unfortunately to the right AND the left, there is really nothing that distinguishes them from a regular civilian trial.
 
Gargantuan said:
Prof, I have nothing against military tribunals
Click to expand...

few care what you do or don't hold things against

millions of sober, mature americans, in contrast, are concerned with their president

civilian trial for ksm in downtown manhattan, anyone?
 
The Prof said:
few care what you do or don't hold things against

millions of sober, mature americans, in contrast, are concerned with their president

civilian trial for ksm in downtown manhattan, anyone?
Click to expand...

What the hell are you talking about? I said a military tribunal is fine and you still attack me???

Just to let you know, I was born, live and work in NY and I really have no issue with trying KSM in Manhattan.
 
not meant as an attack, just a statement

the slasher presumably has an issue with ksm in new york

it must really rankle, his so public CAVE on the question

he sure got his political butt booted

schumer and i-wanna-waiver weiner did the most significant leg swinging

party on, pal

and thanks for the service, sincerely

USA!
 
PzKfW IVe said:
So you agree - not everyone deserves to see a trial.


You contradict yourself here.


Sure it does. If WW2 was still going on, every surviving German/Jap POW would still be in capativity - and not one of them would have had a trial.


The boy who was captured by US troops while engaged in combat doesn't.
He was captured in combat. There's nothing to put hom on trial for.
That's it - end of story.
Click to expand...

He's mentioning what I did earlier. If this is war with Afghanistan, this person should eb released soon. Do you think he will be? If this is war with a tactic, which will never end, the rules need to be reviewed. A different type of war will require diffrent rules.
 
Boo Radley said:
He's mentioning what I did earlier.
Click to expand...

and yet obama and holder aren't listening?

to YOU, the dept chair hisself?

shocking

If this is war with Afghanistan, this person should eb released soon. Do you think he will be?
Click to expand...

LOL!

you have to ask?

If this is war with a tactic, which will never end, the rules need to be reviewed.
Click to expand...

aint gonna happen

ie, you don't know what you're talking about

don't they cover united states NEWS in the sydney morning herald?
 
Gargantuan said:
McVeigh was first held in a supermax facility. Numerous other terrorists are held in supermax facilities. ADX Florence held McVeigh, it currently holds the people involved in the 93 trade center bombing, the Unabomber, etc.
Click to expand...
So what?

I'm not talking about "Japs". This is about a stateless enemy who attacks US troops.
Click to expand...
You said "everyone". Yon't really mean "everyone"? Why did you say "everyone."
The only difference between the Japs and this kid id that the Japs were acting as part of the military of Japan.
Tiis is a distinction witout a difference as the act it self was combat in wartime. No different than today, deserving no different treatment.

What about the people who attacked US troops at the German disco in the 80s? They attacked US troops overseas
Click to expand...
This wasn't combat. Duh.
 
The Prof said:
and yet obama and holder aren't listening?

to YOU, the dept chair hisself?

shocking



LOL!

you have to ask?



aint gonna happen

ie, you don't know what you're talking about

don't they cover united states NEWS in the sydney morning herald?
Click to expand...

None of this silliness disputes me or answers my question concerning actual evidence we've gotten that cna be proven and varified. I guess as you know you can't answer, this is the best you can do. Sadly. :coffeepap
 
the best holder's ig can do:

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

the 9-11 mastermind conducted "terrorist tutorials"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

thanks!
 
However, Prof, neither Holder nor you nor anyone else has given what I have asked for. Isn't it possible that is because tehy and you can't? :coffeepap
 
LOL!

holder and the ig, evidently, have given all they're gonna give

sorry

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

the 9-11 mastermind conducted "terrorist tutorials"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

america is THRILLED!

thanks!
 
But, not what I've asked for. Neithe r them nor you have given what I asked for. Isn't that so? :coffeepap
 
"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

the 9-11 mastermind conducted "terrorist tutorials"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"
 
repeating what isn't what I asked for doesn't help, and shows you once again to not be serious. :coffeepap :2wave:
 
Boo Radley said:
Neithe r them nor you have given what I asked for.
Click to expand...

them didn't give you what you asked for?

LOL!

i'm so sorry

them gave me a great deal of info

most extremely useful

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

the 9-11 mastermind conducted "terrorist tutorials"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

america is grateful barack the slasher hussein did NOT dismantle the anti terror techniques of his predecessors, including the maintencance of gitmo, the detention of terrorists and resort to the patriot act, thus allowing our heroic seals to assassinate the target

USA!
 
The Prof said:
america is grateful barack the slasher hussein did NOT dismantle the anti terror techniques of his predecessors, including the maintencance of gitmo, the detention of terrorists and resort to the patriot act, thus allowing our heroic seals to assassinate the target
Click to expand...
As you see, it OK that The Obama does the terrible things that GWB did, because The Obama has a (D) next to His name.
What's the lesson here?
The -only- issue the Democrats had with GWB is that he wasn't a Democrat.
 
PzKfW IVe said:
As you see, it OK that The Obama does the terrible things that GWB did, because The Obama has a (D) next to His name.
What's the lesson here?
The -only- issue the Democrats had with GWB is that he wasn't a Democrat.
Click to expand...

He hasn't done what Bush did. This effort to make apples look like tree frogs really doesn't work.

But all anyone has to do is provide what I asked for. The Prof can't. And no one else has. I assume it can't be done. :coffeepap
 
what kind of idiot expects crib notes from those "terrorist tutorials"

LOL!

NOT eric holder

he's satisfied with:

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

america is satisfied too

credit goes to barack the slasher hussein for his comprehensive FAILURE to dismantle the anti terror techniques which enabled this assassination

USA!
 
Prof you are a complete idiot and an insult to the intelligence community. To say that torturing people brought UBL to justice is complete crap and you know that. This is the work of hundreds of people every single day to track down every single lead and monitor every single discrepancy and piecing a puzzle together to find him. This is not because of waterboarding. That simple.

ARe you going to continue with your eric holder BARACK THE SLASHER ERIC HOLDER SAYS WATERBOARDING IG REPORT WORKED INSPECTOR GENERAL SLASHER OBAMA garbage or are you going to bring up a valid point? If not, then shut up.
 
after a month of brutal waterboarding in a secret prison in eastern europe ksm "transformed" from "an avowed and truculent enemy of the united states" into langley's "unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

"waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

cia inspector general's report released by eric holder's doj on the monday preceding august 29, 2009

it's pretty plain

america is grateful that president barack the slash FAILED to dismantle the anti terror techniques he inherited from previous administrations---including gitmo, detention, the patriot act---thus allowing this assassination to go down

USA!
 
Check out this article.. interview with Robert Mueller, head of the FBI, which is the agency that is mandated to fight terrorism. Tortured Reasoning | The Magazine | Vanity Fair

Question: So far as you are aware, have any attacks on America been disrupted thanks to intelligence obtained through what the administration still calls “enhanced techniques”?

Answer (from Mueller): I don’t believe that has been the case.

We can quote people back and fourth all day if you like. There is no hard intel gained from these methods and there is no proof they worked. end of story.
 
mr mueller, not charged with investigating events at gitmo and elsewhere, unlike the ig, says he believes eit's played no role

the ig, in contrast, is conclusive

"waterboarding... elicited a lot of information"

"detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

"cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

"ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

mr mueller's views, also unlike the ig's, were not endorsed by eric holder

america is fortunate that president slash FAILED so miserably in his almost ethereal attempts to dismantle the anti terror machinery---including gitmo, detention and the patriot act---put in place by slash's predecessors

thus allowing this assassination of ubl

USA!
 
Waterboarding was never performed at gitmo. That part of your argument was just thrown out. Let's see if I can take care of the rest now...

Quote from a 2004 inspector general report released by the Obama admin in 2009 showed that there is no conclusive proof that information gained from aggressive interrogations helped thwart any "specific imminent attacks" (right from the report).

You can go to aclu or another site and read the inspector general reports for yourself.

Read more: Cheney's speech ignored some inconvenient truths | McClatchy

Read this by John McCain by the way, who spoke to intelligence officials and discredited your arguments that torture found UBL.
Bin Laden’s death and the debate over torture - The Washington Post

By the way, what are you leaving out in this quote here? "waterboarding... elicited a lot of information"
Is that ... the word "didn't"?

Quote from John McCain's convo with Leon Panetta:

"He [KSM] specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married and ceased his role as an al-Qaeda facilitator — none of which was true. According to the staff of the Senate intelligence committee, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in al-Qaeda and his true relationship to bin Laden — was obtained through standard, noncoercive means. "
 
Last edited:
Gargantuan said:
Waterboarding was never performed at gitmo.
Click to expand...

yup, it occurred in eastern europe

it "broke his spirit"

after which he "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

becoming langley's "preeminent source on al qaeda"

By the way, what are you leaving out in this quote here? "waterboarding... elicited a lot of information"
Is that ... the word "didn't"?
Click to expand...

LOL!

the full quote (from the ig report released by doj, aug, 2009) has been posted more than twenty times in this thread

america is grateful the anti terror techniques of cheney---including gitmo, detention and the patriot act---were NOT dismantled by the neophyte occupant of today's white house, thus allowing this heroic GET to go down
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom