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Thread: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    Just stop arguing him. He's not going to give up saying HOLDER or whatever other bull****.
    I know. He isn't a serious.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    holder is

    "preeminent source"

    "waterboarding... elicited a lot of information"

    america is grateful to our agents who employed the anti terror methods of previous administrations, including detention, the maintenance of gitmo and wiretapping, to enable our heroic seals to accomplish this assassination

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Wow!

    There are still people arguing that EIT's did not produce results?
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    They provided information that was not actionable. KSM confessed to numerous crimes. He said that he wanted to behead Jimmy Carter, he said he wanted to blow up the Brooklyn bridge, etc. These did not pan out to anything. You know why? Because like with any coercive interrogation, these things are made up ON THE SPOT by the suspect, or made up shortly before the suspect's interrogation so he can get his made up story completely straight. If you don't give someone an incentive to talk other than stopping pain, you won't get any good information.
    You need to look into this more. You're just flat out wrong about that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    That proves absolutely nothing. The main issue at hand here is the only evidence in support of EITs comes from political appointees. CIA directors, assistant CIA directors (namely this guy who destroyed videotapes, cleared of charges my ass, he destroyed evidence = crime, but since he's a gov. official, he doesn't get charged), directors of national intelligence, etc. These people do not see what goes on on the ground. They are not in the room conducting the interrogations. I can give you quotes from numerous Clinton officials who say these techniques do not work. I can give you the interview with FBI director Mueller (Bush appointee) stating that torture didn't work and didn't save lives. That totally contradicts all these CIA people, who by the way rarely are the ones taking out terror cells. The FBI is the agency that uses the intelligence and makes arrests against suspects on our soil. We can go back and fourth quoting officials all day. It doesn't prove anything.

    Find me an interview or a statement by an interrogator who knows how these techniques work and says they work. You will not find one. No cop, agent, CIA officer, will tell you that these techniques work, because they don't. Political level people like directors/assistant directors hear what they want to hear, and then that's what they say to the public.
    It proves EIT's were highly succesful and prevented further attacks.

    I did provide a statement from a guy directly involved. There are many others who are saying the same thing.

    _
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Hats off to you Prof.

    You're slaying the people in here arguing EIT's did not work.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    You need to look into this more. You're just flat out wrong about that.
    No I'm not flat wrong about anything. There is no evidence of enhanced interrogation methods providing actionable intelligence on anything. Zero. No evidence. Find me some.

    AND DO NOT GIVE ME A LINK FROM SOME AGENCY EXECUTIVE WHO SIMPLY SAYS "THEY WORKED". You have quotes from different republican appointees saying they worked (save Robert Mueller, highly respected FBI director, who thinks that EITs are a load of bull, just like any other sound interrogator) I want to know an actual terror strike that was prevented due to these, an actual militant who was apprehended thanks to these, etc. Don't give me the "classified" crap either because like I said before, the government has no issue releasing information when they have it. For example, every single little detail about Bin Laden's capture and apprehension was released. Or what about the attacks that were supposed to happen to LA in 2002, that the Bush admin claimed was prevented because of EITs on KSM. OH WAIT! THEY DIDN'T HAVE HIM UNTIL 2003! Whoops!

    They were not successful and did not prevent future attacks. There is no conclusive evidence and that's really the final string here. You can go back and fourth posting links from different agency executives saying it worked/didn't work. The point is, that's all a load of ****. These guys have an agenda. Actual interrogators do not, and the consensus among interrogators is that torture does not work. Like I conceded on the other page, could it work in a 1% circumstance? Sure, I guess "anything" is possible.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    You should know better than most that actual 'terror strikes' won't be named. Why don't you? You should know that the intelligence community doesn't speak about anything, period. It's failures are brought up by the press but it's successes are brought up by no one. You should know this, and I think you do. You're just forgetting it to score a political point. That sucks.
    A history of knowledge will not make us clever for the next time, but wise forever.
    -Jacob Burckhardt.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanten Janubi View Post
    You should know better than most that actual 'terror strikes' won't be named. Why don't you? You should know that the intelligence community doesn't speak about anything, period. It's failures are brought up by the press but it's successes are brought up by no one. You should know this, and I think you do. You're just forgetting it to score a political point. That sucks.
    To bring up failures, you have to know about them. If you can know about failures, you should be able to know about some successes. Frabkly, if all one has to do is make a claim and then say but we can't tell you about it, how would anyone ever know that anything is true?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Hats off to you Prof.

    You're slaying the people in here arguing EIT's did not work.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Wow!

    There are still people arguing that EIT's did not produce results?
    By all means, produce some results.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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