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Thread: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

  1. #441
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by RyrineaHaruno View Post
    Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison | World news | The Guardian

    Here is the file with the fifteen year old boy that was a kidnap victim

    I'm not shocked that these people would "interrogate" children. People that supported in keeping this prison are sick and I hate that Obama is keeping it open. Yeah, lets keep open a prison were children were interrogated for being terrorist
    You consider Obama sick?

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Regime Change View Post
    You consider Obama sick?
    any entity which would do this to kids is sick
    such as the republican congress which would not appropriate funds to close guantanamo
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    in may of 09 the united states senate voted NINETY to six to keep gitmo open

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_205797.html

    there were SIXTY dems in upper parliament at the time

    FIFTY of em voted with GEORGE W WHAT'S HIS NAME

    prominent dems who voted for continued operation of gitmo included john f kerry, harry reid, chuck schumer, ron wyden, jay rockefeller, diane difi, barbara boxer, frank lautenberg, robert menendez, claire mccaskill, daniel inouye the appropriations chair...

    america is grateful to the blue fifty as well as every republican in the chamber for NOT dismantling the key anti terror elements of the previous administration, thus allowing this assassination of america's top enemy to happen

  4. #444
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanten Janubi View Post
    Okay, dude. I'm to believe your experience as an interrogator (perhaps?) in federal law enforcement trumps my experience as a counterintelligence interrogator in international operations, when it comes to counterintelligence operations conducted by folks who aren't in federal law enforcement. Can you see why I don't really give you much benefit of doubt? Why there's literally nothing you could say that would dissuade me, that would influence me, more than what I've already learned? Okay.
    You're not getting what I'm saying. You worked in the Army. The Army does not use torture. The army uses conventional methods which are proven time to time to work and be effective. I'm sorry to say, but you can't claim that since you interrogated in counterintelligence, you have more experience. An interrogation changes subject to subject, and different methods are applicable. Whether it's a serial murderer, a narcoterrorist, or whoever you interrogated or talked to friends about interrogating, torture is never acceptable and never works.

    I'm sure you haven't, actually.
    Really? You're sure I haven't? Ok, if you want to doubt what I said, my guess is I doubt you were a 35M. I think you are actually a 91 year old widower living in Australia. I am 49 years old. I have been around for a while, and I've seen it all.

    Right. Which is why it's only useful in an extreme set of circumstances. But I appreciate you letting the world know what is useful in general situations. I'm not sure why you'd share what was useful in specific situations. Did you have an HCS clearance? If you did, why would you talk about what activities were useful and what weren't?
    I wasn't talking about interrogating detainees. I was talking about in general. I've used techniques like sleep deprivation as well as seen reports of it used on people. Of course it's not the methods that were used in the black sites which was pretty damn long sleep deprivation, but the point is, regarding sleep deprivation, if done for long enough, it confuses the hell out of the subject, and gets them to talk. As for the HCS clearance, I don't talk about what my clearance level is on the internet, though I have seen some people on this forum do that (not you).


    I've talked to an interrogator and I've been an interrogator. So stop trying appeal to authority when I know you don't know what you're talking about. Carrots are as useful as sticks, and sticks are usually most useful when they're used in very simple ways. But in some situations, sticks are needed. And in the extreme of those situations, waterboarding- or even torture- are useful. To pretend their not is just not grounded in reality- even if it's not moral. Useful =/ moral.
    I can agree with the useful =/ moral part. However, these methods are not useful, and the fallout from them is not worth it.
    Explain to me how I don't know what I'm talking about. Carrots usually work, and if they don't, brutally beating or torturing the subject isn't going to get them to want to give up information. It's going to cause them to spew whatever crap so they can stop being tortured. I hear people I know who work counterterrorism telling me that it worked to get them to cooperate, as in, stop being silent. That's really as far as I've heard. Whether or not it produced actionable info is probably a no. There are no documented incidents of torture stopping an attack, or in the case of UBL, being the key to finding him.

    Or because of the Geneva Conventions?
    You failed to elaborate on the rest of what I said, namely that torture can happen to our own men, or that it can be a recruitment tool (which it is, Gitmo is a huge recruitment tool, even though most of these EITs didn't even happen there)


    Well, that tells me what's prohibited, not what's useful, but I appreciate the UCMJ brief. It's been awhile, but god knows there's nothing I miss more than a 0600 brief about annual training, so thanks.
    That's not just a UCMJ brief.. that's what you should've been following as an interrogator or as someone who worked with them.

    Let me just say I appreciate having this debate with you rather than the idiots in this thread who just post links to random isolated quotes from retired CIA directors who say "It worked" but offer no clarification, or from idiots who just post a link from the IG, who later mentioned that the methods were not clearly helpful.
    Last edited by Gargantuan; 05-22-11 at 02:50 PM.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    "waterboarding and sleep deprivation were the two most powerful techniques and elicited a lot of information"

    after a month of brutal eit's in a secret prison in europe ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

    ksm "transformed" into langley's "preeminent source on aq"

    "detainees in mid 2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals---many of whom we had never heard of"

    "cross referencing material from different detainees and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the cia and fbi went on to round up operatives both in the us and abroad"

    "ksm was an unparalleled source in deciphering aq's strategic doctrine, key operatives and likely targets"

    from the ig report released by doj on the monday preceding aug 29, 2009

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Just a claim without supporting evidence. I realize you can't give supporting evidence because you don't have any. Apparently only the examples of us getting misinformation, clear and verifable, is all we really have outside of claims.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    eric holder has
    No, he hasn't done it either.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    yup, just a claim

    endorsed by eric holder

    LOL!

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    No, Holder, Panetta, Hayden have ALL said that EIT's have provided solid info....it jusy is what it is.
    Cklaimed, yes, supported, no. I'm not asking for claims, but for verifiable evidence of their claim. BTW, I hope you're not misreading Panetta concerning the information on OBL. I'd hate to see that misinformation based on a poor reading of his comments posted again.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    yup, just a claim

    endorsed by eric holder

    LOL!
    Endorsement isn't a verifable example.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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