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Thread: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

  1. #291
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Bubba, I'm still waiting for you to address article 4 and 5 of the GC.

    You shot your mouth off on that one as well without knowing WTF you were talking about.

    Did you think I forgot? That was right here in this very thread. Remember?
    What is your whole point on the Geneva Convention especially articles 4 and 5? What is your argument here?


  2. #292
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    That's as far as I could get. Where do you lefties come up with this BS?

    Even Panetta admits EIT's gave us the info that led to OBL.

    The CIA interrogators confirm that KSM was not cooperating until he was waterboarded. After that he sang like a baby. Same
    thing with the other two.
    Wrong. Please look up Ali Soufan. FBI interrogator who got KSM talking with normal methods. NYT op Ed "my tortured decision."


    Also, note that even though he may start talking under torture to stop the pain, that does not by any measure mean that hes giving good information. Infact, if he didn't talk under normal methods and suddenly talks under torture, you can pretty much
    assume it's just to stop the pain.

    I come up with this BS by not only working in federal law enforcement, but by doing my research, which you my friend, have not done.

    By the way, it was not CIA. These were private contractors who were contracted by the CIA. Another thing you can learn with research on your own, not on Hannity.
    Last edited by Gargantuan; 05-06-11 at 12:41 AM.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What is your whole point on the Geneva Convention especially articles 4 and 5? What is your argument here?
    You were in the debate. Don't you remember?
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

  4. #294
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    Wrong. Please look up Ali Soufan. FBI interrogator who got KSM talking with normal methods. NYT op Ed "my tortured decision."
    KSM did not cooperate until he was waterboarded. That's an irrefutable fact. Nice try.

    NYT op Ed

    Last edited by Ron Mars; 05-06-11 at 01:28 AM.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Reasons for going to war with Iraq: Iraq had WMD's.
    The report you are stating from the ISG was the Duelfer Report i believe. It was released in late September of 2004. It also states that "Saddam ended his nuclear program in 1991. ISG found no evidence of concerted efforts to restart the program, and Iraq’s ability to reconstitute a nuclear weapons program progressively decayed after 1991." Also "Iraq destroyed its chemical weapons stockpile in 1991, and only a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions were discovered by the ISG." Also it states "Saddam's regime abandoned its biological weapons program and its ambition to obtain advanced biological weapons in 1995. While it could have re-established an elementary BW program within weeks, ISG discovered no indications it was pursuing such a course." Also it states what you have been repeating and repeating over and over again. I get that..
    In March of 2005 the ISG released another report entitled Addenda. In the report it stated "any remaining chemical munitions in Iraq do not pose a militarily significant threat." Also "Iraq’s remaining chemical and biological physical infrastructure does not pose a proliferation concern".
    For the love.

    What part of "Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability" do you not understand.

    You lefties always stop reading once you find something you like. Read the whole report before making a conclusion.

    The ISG also said this about Saddam's Nuclear program. You must have missed it.

    Baghdad undertook a variety of measures to conceal key elements of its nuclear program from successive
    UN inspectors, including specifi c direction by Saddam Husayn to hide and preserve documentation associated
    with Iraq’s nuclear program.

    ISG, for example, uncovered two specifi c instances in which scientists involved in uranium enrichment kept
    documents and technology. Although apparently acting on their own, they did so with the belief and anticipation
    of resuming uranium enrichment efforts in the future.

    Starting around 1992, in a bid to retain the intellectual core of the former weapons program, Baghdad
    transferred many nuclear scientists to related jobs in the Military Industrial Commission (MIC). The work
    undertaken by these scientists at the MIC helped them maintain their weapons knowledge base.

    ISG found a limited number of post-1995 activities that would have aided the reconstitution of the
    nuclear weapons program once sanctions were lifted.

    The Regime prevented scientists from the former nuclear weapons program from leaving either their jobs or
    Iraq. Moreover, in the late 1990s, personnel from both MIC and the IAEC received signifi cant pay raises in
    a bid to retain them, and the Regime undertook new investments in university research in a bid to ensure that
    Iraq retained technical knowledge.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

  6. #296
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Just in case you forgot Bubba.


    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you are the one who has insisted the Geneva Conventions do not apply to those imprisoned at guantanamo
    and you have been asked to provide the language of the GC which excludes those prisoners from the provisions of the GC - to document your position has a valid premise
    you have been unable/unwilling to do so

    but let me offer you a second chance, so that you are not recognized as cowardly slinking away from the challenge to prove your assertion

    and to help you, here is a cite
    Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions - New York Times
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    KSM did not cooperate until he was waterboarded. That's an irrefutable fact. Nice try.

    NYT op Ed

    Op-Ed Contributor - My Tortured Decision - NYTimes.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Soufan, FBI supervisory special agent

    One of the worst consequences of the use of these harsh techniques was that it reintroduced the so-called Chinese wall between the C.I.A. and F.B.I., similar to the communications obstacles that prevented us from working together to stop the 9/11 attacks. Because the bureau would not employ these problematic techniques, our agents who knew the most about the terrorists could have no part in the investigation. An F.B.I. colleague of mine who knew more about Khalid Shaikh Mohammed than anyone in the government was not allowed to speak to him.
    Do your research. The general buzz is that he answered questions after torture only to have the pain stop. You can find this out anywhere on the internet by doing research on the matter. As far as we know, the information he gave did not pan out to anything. Why else do you think the videos of his waterboarding were destroyed? Why is it that when asked about what information we learned from him, all we hear is "a boatload" from high ranking officials, but when you speak to an actual agent, they will tell you that torture is ineffective and pans out to nothing? Because it's politics. A high ranking republican CIA official will say that it works, but then if you talk to a democratic official, they will say it doesn't. Trust the agents on the ground. Trust the law enforcement officers who know how to interrogate people. Coercive methods work for one thing and one thing only, forcing people to answer things with false statements. Torture itself was first used to get people to confess to random crimes. Regarding what you're saying, I have heard the same stuff. Oh! a boatload of information. alright, so what is that information? What did we learn? And it can't be that it's classified, because when an interrogation is successful, we know all of the details within days (perfect example is this Bin Laden case). They told us that it saved Los Angelos, to give a specific answer of divulging interrogation secrets. Do you really think that Bush Cheney, the same people who exposed Valerie Plame, would not release secret information if it helped them prove torture works?

    Regarding the topic here where people are talking about that LA terror attack, that was planned for 2002 which was stopped by waterboarding him, wrong. He wasn't captured until 2003. So, false.

    About Bin Laden, waterboarding was not why he was found. The name of the courier was learned from other suspects, then KSM was asked about him. KSM then lied, which suspects will always do under torture, and said that the guy was unimportant and he had no idea. That's how we started this. It had nothing to do with beating the **** out of him then he suddenly decided to confess where Bin Laden is.

    Ron, let me be clear again - we went to war with Iraq because we thought they had nuclear weapons, not because we thought they had the capability. A lot of nations have the capability. Right now Iran is a perfect example. Let's go invade Iran since they have the capability.

    I don't think it's lefties that selectively ignore facets of debates, I'm pretty sure it's you, because I made a few points in my post, and the only thing you responded to was one of them, and also by insulting me for posting an article by an FBI Agent who served his country with honor and interrogated numerous terrorists, effectively.
    Last edited by Gargantuan; 05-06-11 at 04:11 PM.

  8. #298
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    For the love.

    What part of "Saddam aspired to develop a nuclear capability" do you not understand.

    You lefties always stop reading once you find something you like. Read the whole report before making a conclusion.

    The ISG also said this about Saddam's Nuclear program. You must have missed it.

    Baghdad undertook a variety of measures to conceal key elements of its nuclear program from successive
    UN inspectors, including specifi c direction by Saddam Husayn to hide and preserve documentation associated
    with Iraq’s nuclear program.

    ISG, for example, uncovered two specifi c instances in which scientists involved in uranium enrichment kept
    documents and technology. Although apparently acting on their own, they did so with the belief and anticipation
    of resuming uranium enrichment efforts in the future.

    Starting around 1992, in a bid to retain the intellectual core of the former weapons program, Baghdad
    transferred many nuclear scientists to related jobs in the Military Industrial Commission (MIC). The work
    undertaken by these scientists at the MIC helped them maintain their weapons knowledge base.

    ISG found a limited number of post-1995 activities that would have aided the reconstitution of the
    nuclear weapons program once sanctions were lifted.

    The Regime prevented scientists from the former nuclear weapons program from leaving either their jobs or
    Iraq. Moreover, in the late 1990s, personnel from both MIC and the IAEC received signifi cant pay raises in
    a bid to retain them, and the Regime undertook new investments in university research in a bid to ensure that
    Iraq retained technical knowledge.
    Bottomline: Aspirations don't equal having. Things that COULD do anything in the furture doesn't equal doing them. You own reports showw that Saddam did not meet what Bush claimed. There were no active, groing programs.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You own reports showw that Saddam did not meet what Bush claimed.
    There were no active, groing programs.
    Things that COULD do anything in the furture doesn't equal doing them.
    they doesn't?

    how's detroit this time of year?

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    [Do your research.
    I have done my homework. Many years ago. I've been reading about the info gained from EIT's for some time. I know that actionable intelligence was gained that definately prevented further terrorist attacks and saved innocent lives.

    I'm not really surprised that we tracked down OBL from the info obtained from the EIT's'. I'm sure there is more info we still don't know about that was obtained by them.

    I'm glad the fact that we knew the identity OBL's currier was never leaked to the NYT.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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