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Thread: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    wapo, august 29, 2009:

    How a Detainee Became An Asset - washingtonpost.com

    After enduring the CIA's harshest interrogation methods and spending more than a year in the agency's secret prisons, Khalid Sheik Mohammed stood before U.S. intelligence officers in a makeshift lecture hall, leading what they called "terrorist tutorials." In 2005 and 2006, the bearded, pudgy man who calls himself the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks discussed a wide variety of subjects, including Greek philosophy and al-Qaeda dogma. In one instance, he scolded a listener for poor note-taking and his inability to recall details of an earlier lecture. Speaking in English, Mohammed "seemed to relish the opportunity, sometimes for hours on end, to discuss the inner workings of al-Qaeda and the group's plans, ideology and operatives," said one of two sources who described the sessions, speaking on the condition of anonymity because much information about detainee confinement remains classified. "He'd even use a chalkboard at times."

    These scenes provide previously unpublicized details about the transformation of the man known to U.S. officials as KSM from an avowed and truculent enemy of the United States into what the CIA called its "preeminent source" on al-Qaeda. This reversal occurred after Mohammed was subjected to simulated drowning and prolonged sleep deprivation, among other harsh interrogation techniques. "KSM, an accomplished resistor, provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard, and analysis of that information revealed that much of it was outdated, inaccurate or incomplete," according to newly unclassified portions of a 2004 report by the CIA's then-inspector general released Monday by the Justice Department. The debate over the effectiveness of subjecting detainees to psychological and physical pressure is in some ways irresolvable, because it is impossible to know whether less coercive methods would have achieved the same result. But for defenders of waterboarding, the evidence is clear: Mohammed cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent, only when his spirit was broken in the month after his capture March 1, 2003, as the inspector general's report and other documents released this week indicate.

    One former U.S. official with detailed knowledge of how the interrogations were carried out said Mohammed, like several other detainees, seemed to have decided that it was okay to stop resisting after he had endured a certain amount of pressure. "Once the harsher techniques were used on [detainees], they could be viewed as having done their duty to Islam or their cause, and their religious principles would ask no more of them," said the former official, who requested anonymity because the events are still classified. "After that point, they became compliant. Obviously, there was also an interest in being able to later say, 'I was tortured into cooperating.'" Mohammed described plans to strike targets in Saudi Arabia, East Asia and the United States after the Sept. 11 attacks, including using a network of Pakistanis "to target gas stations, railroad tracks, and the Brooklyn bridge in New York." Cross-referencing material from different detainees, and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the CIA and FBI went on to round up operatives both in the United States and abroad. "Detainees in mid-2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals -- many of who we had never heard of before -- that al-Qaeda deemed suitable for Western operations," according to the CIA summary.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    yesterday, abc reports: the courier that led us to ubl was one of the individuals first made known to us by ksm in the period after he received eit's, during one of what us intel officers quoted by wapo above called the 9-11 mastermind's "terrorist tutorials"

    this info was uncovered in the time when ksm became langley's "preeminent source on al qaeda," that is, when ksm "cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent"

    ksm, abc advises, first provided langley with the identity, only a nickname

    it was al libi who gave it away that this person, one of many people named by ksm, was a courier who, if he were followed, might lead us to the target

    abc, yesterday:

    Phone Call by Kuwaiti Courier Led to Bin Laden - ABC News

    In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.

    One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational leader he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given al-Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed.

    If they could find that courier, they'd find bin Laden.

    The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized for their involvement in a program that involved the harshest interrogation methods in U.S. history.

    "We got beat up for it, but those efforts led to this great day," said Marty Martin, a retired CIA officer who for years led the hunt for bin Laden.

    Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.
    either way, can anyone deny the president's security adviser?

    Said Brennan: "The president had to evaluate the strength of that information, and then made what I believe was one of the most gutsiest calls of any president in recent memory."
    a great day for america!

    the nation is gratefully indebted to all who serve us and made this happen

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Again, you have to prove torture got this information and that it was the major link. If this information came after we had stopped torturing, you can't claim torture led to it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    More;


    Funny. You would think that if the C.I.A.’s interrogation of high-value detainees was all it took, the U.S. government would have succeeded in locating bin Laden before 2006, which is when the C.I.A.’s custody of so-called “high-value detainees” ended. Instead, after the Supreme Court ruled that year that prisoners needed to be treated humanely in compliance with the Geneva Conventions, the C.I.A. was forced to turn its special detainees over to the military for detention and interrogation using more lawful tactics in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. It took five more years before all the dots could be adequately connected.

    Many key details are still missing. But according to the New York Times, the turning point came when detainees being held in Guantánamo—not in the C.I.A.’s secret black-site prisons—revealed to American interrogators the pseudonym used by a key bin Laden courier, whom they also identified as a protégé of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.



    Read more News Desk: Bin Laden Dead, Torture Debate Lives On : The New Yorker

    So, we didn't get the name until 2007, and torture ended in 2006. So, exactly how did torture lead to this?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More;


    Funny. You would think that if the C.I.A.’s interrogation of high-value detainees was all it took, the U.S. government would have succeeded in locating bin Laden before 2006, which is when the C.I.A.’s custody of so-called “high-value detainees” ended. Instead, after the Supreme Court ruled that year that prisoners needed to be treated humanely in compliance with the Geneva Conventions, the C.I.A. was forced to turn its special detainees over to the military for detention and interrogation using more lawful tactics in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. It took five more years before all the dots could be adequately connected.

    Many key details are still missing. But according to the New York Times, the turning point came when detainees being held in Guantánamo—not in the C.I.A.’s secret black-site prisons—revealed to American interrogators the pseudonym used by a key bin Laden courier, whom they also identified as a protégé of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.



    Read more News Desk: Bin Laden Dead, Torture Debate Lives On : The New Yorker

    So, we didn't get the name until 2007, and torture ended in 2006. So, exactly how did torture lead to this?
    You're right. We offered them some ice cream, and they told us everything.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, you have to prove torture got this information
    LOL!

    it didn't, no one was tortured

    eit's turned ksm (according to the cia inspector general's report released in august, 2009, by THE JUSTICE DEPT)

    ksm cooperated, "and to an extraordinary extent," "only after his spirit was broken," became the cia's "preeminent source on al qaeda," named the courier 4 years ago, confirmed by al libi, who was also eit'd...

    two years ago the agents found the courier (who is named in the abc piece), last august they found the compound...

    and america (even chris matthews) is THRILLED with the results!

    just the facts, maam

    no spin, lynn
    Last edited by The Prof; 05-03-11 at 02:15 PM.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    LOL!

    it didn't, no one was tortured

    eit's turned ksm (according to the cia inspector general's report released in august, 2009, by THE JUSTICE DEPT)

    ksm cooperated, "and to an extraordinary extent," "only after his spirit was broken," became the cia's "preeminent source on al qaeda," named the courier 4 years ago, confirmed by al libi, who was also eit'd...

    two years ago the agents found the courier (who is named in the abc piece), last august they found the compound...

    and america (even chris matthews) is THRILLED with the results!

    just the facts, maam

    no spin, lynn
    Again, Fox news and the links you guys use say they didn't get the name until 2007. Torture ended in 2006. You can't change the facts. As for your old article, as was noted then, no one produced any actual intel they got from KSm that actually done anything. Even the example Cheney gave proved not to be true, as we actually had the information before we torture KSm and got it without torture.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Fox news and the links you guys use
    LOL!

    you don't know what you're talking about

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    LOL!

    you don't know what you're talking about
    Best you got? All you have to do is prove actual intel we got due to torture that led to anything.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Where is the 24/7 media call for the war criminal 0bama to be impeached and put on trial like they did for Bush?

    Where are the lefty protests? Where it the "illegal war" BS we've seen for years?

    The answer is obvious. When it's one of their own the left ignores it.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    [Its given rights to spies, Mexican bandits, pirates....
    None of them are POW's or captured terrorists.

    So you looked and couldn't find a single example.

    Consider yourself punked. I'm sure it's not the first time nor will it be the last.

    Slate Magazine!!!
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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