Page 19 of 58 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 578

Thread: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

  1. #181
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,137

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The thing it is, they are treated decently, Boo Boo.... they have shelter, are fed, and are allowed to practice their religion. The ones living in cages are the hard cases, and this type of incarceration is no different then solitary confinement in US prisons. Are they interrogated and pressed for information? Of course they are, and that's the point of contention here. Personally, I have no problems with enemy combatant being interrogated.

    I think the question on your mind might be: are we sure they ARE enemy combatants? and just HOW did we make sure they are?

    Is it possible for someone like me to become more flexible?
    yea, who cares if we are secretly holding folks who have done nothing wrong
    America, land of the free
    may you choke on those words now
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #182
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The thing it is, they are treated decently, Boo Boo.... they have shelter, are fed, and are allowed to practice their religion. The ones living in cages are the hard cases, and this type of incarceration is no different then solitary confinement in US prisons. Are they interrogated and pressed for information? Of course they are, and that's the point of contention here. Personally, I have no problems with enemy combatant being interrogated.

    I think the question on your mind might be: are we sure they ARE enemy combatants? and just HOW did we make sure they are?

    Is it possible for someone like me to become more flexible?
    Actually you don't know that. What we do know, as a fact, we ahve harmed innocent people. A couple are dead due to torture and we believe they were innocent. Knowing that we have errored, how can anyone be so sure that we only have the guilty? That only the guilty are mistreated? And if we can't be sure, don't we believe in protecting the innocent?

    As for flexibility, I se no way to be flexible on torture. It's wrong and illegal, bottomline. Any rule of law would work for me in holding and assuring due process. Give them honest defense, due process and follow law, and I have no problem. And have oversight as to make sure no one is being unfairly or wrongly prosecuted. Rule of law, integerty, fairness so to protect those who are indeed innocent.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #183
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    yea, who cares if we are secretly holding folks who have done nothing wrong
    America, land of the free
    may you choke on those words now
    If you had to choose between Gitmo and a hole in the ground waiting for some cowardly ****ing asshole to cut off your head with a dull knife on the internet, you would take Gitmo.

    Keep this in mind though: these guys get better food and more exercise than some of the max security AMERICAN inmates in some US prisons.

  4. #184
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,137

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    If you had to choose between Gitmo and a hole in the ground waiting for some cowardly ****ing asshole to cut off your head with a dull knife on the internet, you would take Gitmo.

    Keep this in mind though: these guys get better food and more exercise than some of the max security AMERICAN inmates in some US prisons.

    your comparison is with American prisoners who have had their guilt adjudicated in a fair trial
    not a valid comparison
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  5. #185
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    your comparison is with American prisoners who have had their guilt adjudicated in a fair trial
    not a valid comparison
    The Constitution does not confer rights or take them away. It limits what the government can do in the US with/to US Citizens. With regards to actions outside our borders, it gives Congress the power to declare war.

    It is liberal courts, judges and press who have to extend its applicability to non-US citizens. We started down that slippery slope when a court said that illegal aliens have constitutional rights when they are in our borders. That **** should have been stopped right there.

    Get this....They have no ****ing rights under our Constitution or under international law. They are treated as well as they are because we are trying to keep this from turning into a war against all islam.

  6. #186
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,137

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The Constitution does not confer rights or take them away. It limits what the government can do in the US with/to US Citizens. With regards to actions outside our borders, it gives Congress the power to declare war.

    It is liberal courts, judges and press who have to extend its applicability to non-US citizens. We started down that slippery slope when a court said that illegal aliens have constitutional rights when they are in our borders. That **** should have been stopped right there.

    Get this....They have no ****ing rights under our Constitution or under international law. They are treated as well as they are because we are trying to keep this from turning into a war against all islam.
    you keep referencing the Constitution but your posts indicate you have either not read it or you failed to grasp what it says
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #187
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you keep referencing the Constitution but your posts indicate you have either not read it or you failed to grasp what it says
    lol...The bad guys in this war are well aware of the rights and freedoms guaranteed by the US Constitution and their battle plan is designed to exploit those as weaknesses.

    There is a fundamental problem here.....

    At the time the Magna Carta was written and imposed on King John, it was probably the greatest political document confirming rights and limiting the power of government to exist to date. But times changed and it was no longer good enough. Our founding fathers wrote the Declaration of Independence in 1776 and finally ratified the Constitution in 1789. Even the Constitution was unable to remain unchanged by time and we amended it. Several times.

    Now, the Geneva Convention was written in a time when war was conducted primarily by European powers (1860's). It set rules for warfare as it was understood at that time. The fact is, it is ****ing outdated. Times have changed and the war we face now does not fall squarely within the delineations of war v. not-war. We aren't fighting against a nation/state, though in the old days, we would have made it nation v. nation. Today, we recognize this problem as not limited to a single nation. It is an idea we're fighting, terrorism/radical Islam, not Iraq, not Iran, etc.

    But people don't like fuzzy definitions. They want something as clear cut as our enemy was in past wars. And because it isn't, they bitch about the President overstepping his bounds, occupations, foreign combatants, etc. It isn't neat, therefore it is disturbing.

    Warfare has changed since 1870.

    The bottom line is the Geneva and Hague Conventions are past due to be amended or scrapped.

    The STUPIDITY and IDIOCY is in holding us to the rules of war as they existed 140 years ago, when breechloaders were first entering service, there were no planes, no suicide bombers, etc.

    Like immigration, the system is broken, a problem exists and we need to redefine how things work.

  8. #188
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    There is nothing stupid about following rule of law. Nothing stupid about not fearing an enemy that really beat us to start with so much that we throw all rules and laws out the window. Nothing stupid about being better than our enemey, strong, more moral, with a better argument. There is no reason we need to lower ourself anywhere near our enemies tactics and standard.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #189
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There is nothing stupid about following rule of law. Nothing stupid about not fearing an enemy that really beat us to start with so much that we throw all rules and laws out the window. Nothing stupid about being better than our enemey, strong, more moral, with a better argument. There is no reason we need to lower ourself anywhere near our enemies tactics and standard.
    I wish I had a sad violin or cello music to play in the background. Get real, dude! We have a criminal justice INDUSTRY. It's not a system, it's a business and the root of the problem is that our *current* laws are written by lawyers for lawyers, and tend to have a social agenda that is driven by money and lobbyists rather than what is workable, effective and positive for society (although you will find wildly differing viewpoints about what's "positive for society").

    Oh ****! I almost forgot, "lobbying" is just another word for "bribery" and should not be allowed.

  10. #190
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I wish I had a sad violin or cello music to play in the background. Get real, dude! We have a criminal justice INDUSTRY. It's not a system, it's a business and the root of the problem is that our *current* laws are written by lawyers for lawyers, and tend to have a social agenda that is driven by money and lobbyists rather than what is workable, effective and positive for society (although you will find wildly differing viewpoints about what's "positive for society").

    Oh ****! I almost forgot, "lobbying" is just another word for "bribery" and should not be allowed.
    So, we imprison too many peope for lawyers?

    None of what you said changes anything. We need to abide by rule of law. If we can dismiss rule of law, then we have no law, and we are not the glowing light of the world so many want to see us as.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Page 19 of 58 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •