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Thread: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

  1. #121
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    my understanding is that all who are within the USA or its territories are subject to the Constitution and the federal law which followed it, excepting only those diplomats who are here in a capacity to represent their own nations, such as embassy personnel and those foreign members/staff of the UN

    would you please point the provision of the Constitution/federal law which stipulates that the laws of our nation do not flow to non-citizens
    That argument was made by Gitmo plaintiffs released in 2004. They sought relief under the 5th and 8th amendments, as well as the Alien Tort Statute, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and the Geneva Convention. Elena Kagan's brief for respondents has this:

    b. On the constitutional claims, the district court held that respondents are entitled to qualified immunity. Pet. App. 154a-166a. The court declined to determine whether petitioners' allegations stated claims of constitutional violations, holding that respondents are entitled to qualified immunity because any constitutional rights possessed by Guantanamo Bay detainees were not clearly established at the time of the conduct. Id. at 156a-166a.

    And then argued:

    [I]At the time of petitioners' detention (between 2002 and March 2004), it was not clearly established that the Fifth and Eighth Amendments protected aliens detained abroad by the military. In Johnson v. Eisentrager, 339 U.S. 763 (1950), for instance, this Court rejected the contention that alien combatants held by the military outside the sovereign territory of the United States, at a military base in Germany, had a constitutional right to seek habeas corpus and rights under the Fifth Amendment. See also Verdugo- Urquidez, 494 U.S. at 269 (holding that Fourth Amendment did not apply to search of non-resident alien's property abroad, and discussing and quoting Eisentrager, 339 U.S. at 784); Zadvydas v. Davis, 533 U.S. 678, 693 (2001) ("t is well established that certain constitutional protections available to persons inside the United States are unavailable to aliens outside of our geographic borders") (citing Eisentrager, 339 U.S. at 784); see also Jifry v. FAA, 370 F.3d 1174, 1182 (D.C. Cir. 2004), cert. denied, 543 U.S. 1146 (2005); 32 County Sovereignty Comm. v. Department of State, 292 F.3d 797, 799 (D.C. Cir. 2002).

    b. Review is also unwarranted in light of the court of appeals' additional holding (Pet. App. 10a-13a) that respondents are in any event entitled to qualified immunity on petitioners' Fifth and Eighth Amendment claims. That holding is likewise correct and represents a straightforward application of settled principles governing qualified immunity.

    There were even cases that had specifically rejected a claim of constitutional rights for aliens at Guantanamo Bay. The Eleventh Circuit had held that alien refugees there had "no First Amendment or Fifth Amendment rights." Cuban Am. Bar Ass'n v. Christopher, 43 F.3d 1412, 1428 (11th Cir.), cert. denied, 515 U.S. 1142, and 516 U.S. 913 (1995). And the D.C. Circuit concluded-during the period of petitioners' own detention-that the Fifth Amendment did not apply to aliens held at Guantanamo Bay. Al Odah v. United States, 321 F.3d 1134, 1140-1144 (2003), rev'd on other grounds sub nom. Rasul v. Bush, 542 U.S. 466 (2004). Even after this Court reversed Al Odah on statutory grounds and held that detainees at Guantanamo Bay could seek habeas relief under 28 U.S.C. 2241, see Rasul v. Bush, 542 U.S. 466, 476 (2004), district courts reached opposing conclusions about whether detainees at Guantanamo Bay had Fifth Amendment rights. See Boumediene, 128 S. Ct. at 2241 (describing district court opinions).

    No. 09-227: Rasul v. Myers - Opposition
    Last edited by LuckyDan; 04-26-11 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Constitutional rights extended (or not extended) to POWs, enemy combatants, or terrorists held at Gitmo: here
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  3. #123
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Constitutional rights extended (or not extended) to POWs, enemy combatants, or terrorists held at Gitmo: here
    Opinions aside:

    June 13, 2008For the third time in four years, the Supreme Court has rebuked the Bush administration for denying due process of law to inmates at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base

    Habeas Corpus Guantanamo - Due process at Gitmo - Los Angeles Times

    WASHINGTON — A divided Supreme Court ruled Thursday that foreign terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay have rights under the Constitution to challenge their detention in U.S. civilian courts.

    The justices, in a 5-4 ruling, handed the Bush administration its third setback at the high court since 2004 over its treatment of prisoners being held indefinitely and without charges at the U.S. naval base in Cuba.

    Supreme Court Allows Guantanamo Prisoners to Challenge Detention in U.S. Courts - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Opinions aside:

    June 13, 2008For the third time in four years, the Supreme Court has rebuked the Bush administration for denying due process of law to inmates at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base

    Habeas Corpus Guantanamo - Due process at Gitmo - Los Angeles Times

    WASHINGTON — A divided Supreme Court ruled Thursday that foreign terrorism suspects held at Guantanamo Bay have rights under the Constitution to challenge their detention in U.S. civilian courts.

    The justices, in a 5-4 ruling, handed the Bush administration its third setback at the high court since 2004 over its treatment of prisoners being held indefinitely and without charges at the U.S. naval base in Cuba.

    Supreme Court Allows Guantanamo Prisoners to Challenge Detention in U.S. Courts - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum - FOXNews.com

    Right, but they did not rule that HC is to be granted on a constitutional leve, as was stated in my link.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Constitutional rights extended (or not extended) to POWs, enemy combatants, or terrorists held at Gitmo: here
    actually, they were:
    ... Although the Court struck down the military commissions as created by the Executive Branch, they did not provide the detainees with direct access to the federal courts, but only with access to a fair and impartial hearing to a tribunal constitutionally authorized by Congress and proceeding with certain due process guarantees (such as one operated under terms similar to those provided by Article I courts under the UCMJ or according to the terms of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949).
    [emphasis added by bubba]
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    actually, they were: [emphasis added by bubba]
    Hamdi v. Rumsfeld - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    the paragraph you quoted merely states that congress has the constitutional authority to authorize a tribunal....
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Right, but they did not rule that HC is to be granted on a constitutional leve, as was stated in my link.
    But again you miss the point about the constitution. It is not THEIR rights in question. It is OUR BEHAVIOR that is under question. We do not leave law and order to a place where anything goes. We are US citzens and are expected to behave like US citizens. We are expected to provide due process. Like I said earlier, we either believe our ideals, that these are rights given by god to all men, or we don't. We either believe in rule of law, or we don't. We're either human beings or ruthless, lawless animals (which is an insult to anmials who would never do what we've done).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But again you miss the point about the constitution. It is not THEIR rights in question. It is OUR BEHAVIOR that is under question. We do not leave law and order to a place where anything goes. We are US citzens and are expected to behave like US citizens. We are expected to provide due process. Like I said earlier, we either believe our ideals, that these are rights given by god to all men, or we don't. We either believe in rule of law, or we don't. We're either human beings or ruthless, lawless animals (which is an insult to anmials who would never do what we've done).
    Okay, I think it's best to say we agree to disagree. You can hold every single person in this country, born here without their consent or understanding, to some arbitrary notion of morality and ethics. That's fine, keep on keepin' on. I get your point, I do. I just don't see things in the shame shade as you do. And that's fine, too.
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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Okay, I think it's best to say we agree to disagree. You can hold every single person in this country, born here without their consent or understanding, to some arbitrary notion of morality and ethics. That's fine, keep on keepin' on. I get your point, I do. I just don't see things in the shame shade as you do. And that's fine, too.
    I thought conservatives always talked about core values? I always suspected that such was selective. Thanks for confirming that.

    However, that is not all that was posted above. We have mentioned rule of law, and the courts have ruled in favor of due process, which forced Bush to form the tribunnels. We also know that torture is illegal both internationally and by US law. So, if you don't have any core valuees to guide you, rule of law should.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Guantánamo leaks lift lid on world's most controversial prison

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