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Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigation"

Objective Voice

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I wanted the title to read: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face international criminal investigation", but there wasn't enough space. Anway...

Found this article from YahooNews.com:

ElBaradei suggests war crimes probe of Bush team

From the article:

Former chief U.N. nuclear inspector Mohamed ElBaradei suggests in a new memoir that Bush administration officials should face international criminal investigation for the "shame of a needless war" in Iraq.

...

He is harshest in addressing the Bush administration's 2002-2003 drive for war with Iraq, when ElBaradei and Hans Blix led teams of U.N. inspectors looking for signs Saddam Hussein's government had revived nuclear, chemical or biological weapons programs.

He tells of an October 2002 meeting he and Blix had with Secretary of State Colin Powell, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and others, at which the Americans sought to convert the U.N. mission into a "cover for what would be, in essence, a United States-directed inspection process."

Moderator's Warning:
Quoted passage shortened to meet Breaking News Guidelines.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

I wanted the title to read: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face international criminal investigation", but there wasn't enough space. Anway...

Found this article from YahooNews.com:

ElBaradei suggests war crimes probe of Bush team

I think he should be prosecuted and not just for an illegal and immoral invasion, but for torture and spreading WMD. Millions of pounds of DU (depleted uranium). It is my greatest disappointment with Obama that he did not prosecute. One of many disappointments, I might add. Bush the lesser and Bush the greater both belong in Jail. Bush 1 had to pardon 8 witnesses to keep himself from prosecution.

I keep trying to post this reply but it keeps telling me my message is too short. Something smells like fish.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

I wanted the title to read: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face international criminal investigation", but there wasn't enough space. Anway...

Found this article from YahooNews.com:

ElBaradei suggests war crimes probe of Bush team

I think he should be prosecuted and not just for an illegal and immoral invasion, but for torture and spreading WMD. Millions of pounds of DU (depleted uranium). It is my greatest disappointment with Obama that he did not prosecute. One of many disappointments, I might add. Bush the lesser and Bush the greater both belong in Jail. Bush 1 had to pardon 8 witnesses to keep himself from prosecution.

I keep trying to post this reply but it keeps telling me my message is too short. Something smells like fish.

I think right after the prosecute Bush and his team, they do the same to Obama.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

First let me make it clear that I was not in favor of going to War in Iraq and especially not before the Afghanistan war was won.

Who knew they didn't go into it to win, only for fun and profit, which goes on still today.

However I have to say that a great number of people forget there was a huge warehouse full of Artillery shells laden with Poison Gas, and that Saddam had used poison gas on his own people.

They also for get that Saddam himself said before he was hung that he felt he had too mislead the World about him having WMDs to keep Iran from another invasion.


So many radicals have been brainwashed by the Leftist to be hateful they are always wanting President Bush jailed for anything that comes up.

Now I have made it very clear that I believe Obama if a worthless lying fool, and I have called for him to be charged for violating his oath of off as it relates to Article 4 Sec. 4 of the Constitution, but I never said to jail him. I have said th=at there needs to be a new law forcing every candidate for the office to prove they are leagal to run, and if found to have lied, then Jailed.

But what I wish for now is that people stop trying to change facts. In this case I have to assume the only reason we never heard from this author on this before was book sales.

You can read about Saddam Bluffing about WMDs here from CNN:CNN.com - Transcripts
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

There is no credible evidence that President Bush launched the war with full knowledge that Iraq did not possess WMD and did not pose any threat to U.S. interests or allies. IMO, the subsequently-released Intelligence assessments showed no credible imminent threat. Subsequent reviews also found major Intelligence flaws. President Bush made a value judgment. No matter how erroneous, a bad decision by itself is not a war crime. There has to be a deliberate choice to launch a war with clear knowledge of the evidence under which a reasonable person would clearly not initiate such a conflict given that evidence. That test is not met. Therefore, Dr. ElBaradei's opinion notwithstanding, I do not expect any international war crimes investigation. History will judge the decision as flawed. It won't judge it as constituting a war crime.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

Former chief U.N. nuclear inspector Mohamed ElBaradei

Uh, yeah! That's a credible source.

Isn't Elbaradie linked up with the Muslim Brotherhood?
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

There is no credible evidence that President Bush launched the war with full knowledge that Iraq did not possess WMD and did not pose any threat to U.S. interests or allies. IMO, the subsequently-released Intelligence assessments showed no credible imminent threat. Subsequent reviews also found major Intelligence flaws. President Bush made a value judgment. No matter how erroneous, a bad decision by itself is not a war crime. There has to be a deliberate choice to launch a war with clear knowledge of the evidence under which a reasonable person would clearly not initiate such a conflict given that evidence. That test is not met. Therefore, Dr. ElBaradei's opinion notwithstanding, I do not expect any international war crimes investigation. History will judge the decision as flawed. It won't judge it as constituting a war crime.

Anyone here that believes this crap in the OP is worst than a birther on steriods.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

I think right after the prosecute Bush and his team, they do the same to Obama.

There is just no groundswell to prosecute anyone. Any attempts were met with American bribery, coercion, and outright corruption. ie. The Hague, Spain, UN, etc.
 
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Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

First let me make it clear that I was not in favor of going to War in Iraq and especially not before the Afghanistan war was won.

Who knew they didn't go into it to win, only for fun and profit, which goes on still today.

However I have to say that a great number of people forget there was a huge warehouse full of Artillery shells laden with Poison Gas, and that Saddam had used poison gas on his own people.

They also for get that Saddam himself said before he was hung that he felt he had too mislead the World about him having WMDs to keep Iran from another invasion.


So many radicals have been brainwashed by the Leftist to be hateful they are always wanting President Bush jailed for anything that comes up.

Now I have made it very clear that I believe Obama if a worthless lying fool, and I have called for him to be charged for violating his oath of off as it relates to Article 4 Sec. 4 of the Constitution, but I never said to jail him. I have said th=at there needs to be a new law forcing every candidate for the office to prove they are leagal to run, and if found to have lied, then Jailed.

But what I wish for now is that people stop trying to change facts. In this case I have to assume the only reason we never heard from this author on this before was book sales.

You can read about Saddam Bluffing about WMDs here from CNN:CNN.com - Transcripts

Hmm, thought this thread was about Bush? Glad you brought up the book sales, as I feel the guy was a coward to wait so long with his complaints, instead of coming forward, which could have saved thousands of lives. Change "facts?" What changes?
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

Uh, yeah! That's a credible source.

Isn't Elbaradie linked up with the Muslim Brotherhood?

I think he works for McDonald's. What is wrong with his credible evidence?
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

I think he works for McDonald's. What is wrong with his credible evidence?

Umm...It's not credible? It would never stand up in court? It's opinion? It's hearsay? Shall I keep going?
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

The only thing Bush is guilty of is believing faulty intelligence that told him what he wanted to hear. He wanted to hear the the nuclear weapons program was ongoing, so he did. He wanted to hear the there were stockpiles of WMDs, so he did.

As far as "war crimes," Rumsfeld should have been forced to resign after Abu Ghraib. That's about it.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

I wanted the title to read: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face international criminal investigation", but there wasn't enough space. Anway...

Found this article from YahooNews.com:

ElBaradei suggests war crimes probe of Bush team

From the article:

Isn't this the guy Obama wants to run Egypt.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

I wanted the title to read: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face international criminal investigation", but there wasn't enough space. Anway...

Found this article from YahooNews.com:

ElBaradei suggests war crimes probe of Bush team

I think he should be prosecuted and not just for an illegal and immoral invasion, but for torture and spreading WMD. Millions of pounds of DU (depleted uranium). It is my greatest disappointment with Obama that he did not prosecute. One of many disappointments, I might add. Bush the lesser and Bush the greater both belong in Jail. Bush 1 had to pardon 8 witnesses to keep himself from prosecution.

I keep trying to post this reply but it keeps telling me my message is too short. Something smells like fish.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, especially when you consider the level of intelligence that was available at the time and even now. Or lack there of.

The focus now seems to be on getting enough time at a desk to gain some semblance of credibility and get on the book/tv tour - where the money is.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

Hmm, thought this thread was about Bush? Glad you brought up the book sales, as I feel the guy was a coward to wait so long with his complaints, instead of coming forward, which could have saved thousands of lives. Change "facts?" What changes?

I agree with points of your statement. Too little too late. If he wanted to raise a stink, 2002 would have been a good time to do it. War crimes would be difficult to prove. I think he could be convicted though of being blind to anything he didn't want to see and willful ignorance. I think the punishment should be forcing him to wear a jesters outfit and do the Macarena with a monkey on Dancing with the Stars.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

However I have to say that a great number of people forget there was a huge warehouse full of Artillery shells laden with Poison Gas, and that Saddam had used poison gas on his own people.

There was no warehouse full of artillery shells containing poison gas. Approximately 500 artillery shells were dug up from various locations around Iraq, and these dated from the Iraq-Iran war. Some were thought to have contained mustard gas, and some were thought to have contain Sarin. All were so degraded as to make ascertaining their contents impossible, and not in any condition to be regarded as effective weapons.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

Why doesn't anyone want to discuss the torture? No question that it was authorized from GW SH*for Brains personally. Against the Geneva Convention as well as our own laws. He didn't even have the balls or honor to stand and take the blame when they sent those two scumbags Graner and England to jail. Prosecute Obama for invading Libya.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

Why doesn't anyone want to discuss the torture? No question that it was authorized from GW SH*for Brains personally. Against the Geneva Convention as well as our own laws. He didn't even have the balls or honor to stand and take the blame when they sent those two scumbags Graner and England to jail. Prosecute Obama for invading Libya.

I think the people who complain the most at Americans committing torture ought to check out those who make us look like pikers....

section2-37-68-torture-pub.pub
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

Don't ya just love how the hard lefties side with this nations enemies at any turn. Dhimmi's.


j-mac
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

The only thing Bush is guilty of is believing faulty intelligence that told him what he wanted to hear. He wanted to hear the the nuclear weapons program was ongoing, so he did. He wanted to hear the there were stockpiles of WMDs, so he did.

As far as "war crimes," Rumsfeld should have been forced to resign after Abu Ghraib. That's about it.

Exactly, they dismissed the analysts with information they didnt want and sought out links to al-quaeda and WMD as far as they could. The evidence was paltry to begin with.
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

There is just no groundswell to prosecute anyone. Any attempts were met with American bribery, coercion, and outright corruption. ie. The Hague, Spain, UN, etc.

What attempts?
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

I agree with points of your statement. Too little too late. If he wanted to raise a stink, 2002 would have been a good time to do it. War crimes would be difficult to prove. I think he could be convicted though of being blind to anything he didn't want to see and willful ignorance. I think the punishment should be forcing him to wear a jesters outfit and do the Macarena with a monkey on Dancing with the Stars.

That's actually kind of funny.



Seriously though, Bush would send out Colin Powell to do it for him

 
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Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

I don't even know where to start with this... The ignorance surrounding this "debate", on both sides, is astounding. How sad that America, land of the free and home of the brave has morphed into land of the sound-byte media and home of the willfully ignorant.

All the evidence is there, it lies in full view under the thinest of veils. First, let me say that ignorance of the facts is rarely a good legal defense.

There is no credible evidence that President Bush launched the war with full knowledge that Iraq did not possess WMD and did not pose any threat to U.S. interests or allies.

To believe this, one must take it as an absolute. That is to say, that short of 100% certainty any decision on action is acceptable. Or... That Bush and Co. clapped their hands over the ears, shut their eyes tight and loudly chanted LALALALALALALALALALA, I CAN"T HEAR YOU when presented with UN inspection intelligence and dead steady US intelligence going back 12 years. Mind you, we had carte blanche to overfly the country, and did so daily with some of the most sophisticated technology on the planet. More than capable of making detailed assessments of activities.

IMO, the subsequently-released Intelligence assessments showed no credible imminent threat.

And you don't see a contradiction to your first statement?

How is it that overwhelming evidence and intelligence existed from professional non political agencies existed that Iraq was not a threat, and yet Bush and company remained perplexed to the point of believing with conviction the opposite was "true"?

This is where it gets interesting...

Ever heard of Team B?
How about the "noble lie?

These are the two primary tools of the NeoCons, and they have been in play and ever refined since 1976 following the Halloween Massacre which effectively overthrew President Ford's cabinet.

If you are ignorant of who and what Team B was/is, here is some suggested reading...

"Intelligence Community Experiment in Competitive Analysis- Soviet Strategic Objectives: Report of Team B" (PDF). National Archives. [PDF file]

Cahn, Anne H. (September 1998). Killing Detente: The Right Attacks the CIA. Pennsylvania State University Press. ISBN 0-271-01791-0.

Gervasi, Tom (October 1986). The Myth of Soviet Military Supremacy. W W Norton & Co Inc. ISBN 0-393-01776-1.

Korb, Lawrence J. (August 18, 2004). "It's Time to Bench 'Team B'". Center for American Progress.

Goodman, Melvin A. (July 23, 2003). "As a CIA analyst, I've seen distortions of intelligence before". The Progressive.

Husain, Khurram (November/December 2003). "Neocons: The men behind the curtain" . Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists 59 (06): 62–71. doi:10.2968/059006013.


Here is the upshot...

Team B was an independent, ad hoc "competitive intelligence assessment" exercise designed to challenge the official Soviet threat assessment with one goal in mind, to dismantle détente. This was accomplished by grossly over estimating soviet capabilities, with absurd assertions. For example, the reason they stated the the CIA was unable to detect new Russian military hardware, wasn't because the country was in economic chaos, but because their systems were so advanced, they were undetectable... with no evidence beyond the claim that "they knew the Russian mindset". Seriously!

Here is the kicker... they were caught in ever lie, and they admitted to these lies after the Soviet fall.. justifying the noble lie by pointing to this event as vindication of those lies, America was now the sole super power... what else mattered? With the success of that exercise, Team B went to work supporting an agenda for a massive arms build-up, one that helped push the country into deficit spending and recession. When the USSR fell apart under the weight of it's own failings, the neocons believed that they were responsible, which emboldened them...

Here we have the blueprint, the framework for all subsequent attempts to advance the neocon agenda. Which, as a side note, is two fold; to secure US position as sole superpower for the next century, creating a PaxAmericana, and to reignite the moral fiber the held together our society and heal the wounds left from the leftist counter culture. Both could be accomplished most quickly, not by using reason and honesty, but by creating larger than life evils and threats, if curiously vague, using lies and misinformation. It served them in the 80's in the arms build-up, it served them in the 90's to attempt to cripple the Clinton administration, and blossomed in 2000s with an all neocon cabinet.

And we are to believe, with this kind of track record, that past claims of ignorance and later admissions of lies, full admission of the noble lie, the created myths of great good vs evil, the willingness to enter into evil to accomplish "good", men that call themselves "democratic revolutionaries" are to be taken at their word?

If the whole of our intellignece community had it right, or mostly right, over a twelve year period, with daily overflights of a country, where did the confusion come from? Why was there so much alleged handwringing over whether Iraq was a threat? It came from Team B. Wholly manufactured just as in every decade before. Here is a clue, independent intelligence analysis headed by members of a tight knit group of a powerful revolutionary faction will never result in accurate assessments, but rather support the agenda of that group at any cost, even if that means entering into evil (lying) to do so. Period. There was no question in official, professional, intel circles that Iraq was no threat.



Subsequent reviews also found major Intelligence flaws.

Bull.... Flaws? No.. that is a euphamism for outright, bold faced lies. The "flaws" came only from Team B and a special assessment group set up in the pentagon headed by Wolfowitz. These flaws follow lockstep with the tactics employed in previous years, tactics unabashedly admitted to. To ask that these be viewed as flaws by anyone who knows their history, is asking to set aside knowledge and facts. Every credible intelligence agency raised doubts and outright dismissed the sources being used by Team B and the special intel team in the pentagon.

President Bush made a value judgment.

Bush made no judgement. The judgement was made long before Bush ever ran for president.

No matter how erroneous, a bad decision by itself is not a war crime. There has to be a deliberate choice to launch a war with clear knowledge of the evidence under which a reasonable person would clearly not initiate such a conflict given that evidence. That test is not met.

The only way one can claim that test is not met, is if one remains ignorant of the DETAILS and history of the men involved and their single minded, single tactic march to fulfill a 35 year agenda.

Therefore, Dr. ElBaradei's opinion notwithstanding, I do not expect any international war crimes investigation. History will judge the decision as flawed. It won't judge it as constituting a war crime.

Shame Dr. E's "opinion" has more facts supporting it than Bush had in going to war... awfully inconvenient....
 
Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

Don't ya just love how the hard lefties side with this nations enemies at any turn. Dhimmi's.


j-mac

The enemy is within and you are on their side. Not to worry, it is an internal mental thing and you haven't noticed.
 
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