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Thread: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigation"

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I suspect you got it from "moveon.org", the self appointed guardians of truth in our time....

    Only they know what's REALLY going on in Iraq.
    Ohhh... one more thing... Truth is a joke. Truth is subjective, dependent on belief systems. Facts are facts regardless of what you believe.

    You stick with the truth... I'll take facts every day.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Like another poster said, that alone should warrant an investigation.... That sort of chicken game makes sense to me, and many analysts have pointed out that Iraq helped to balance the powers in the ME...

    So, if this is true, why the **** would our intelligence be so ignorant on such important and common sense politics in the ME... Why did our intelligence goof so bad? That is ridiculous and should be investigated.
    Oh good lord... does anyone go past the front page anymore?

    It wasn't Our intelligence that got it wrong. The CIA, FBI, DIA and several others got it right. Consistently.

    The so called intelligence apparatus that got it wrong was assembled by the neocons. Team B, which has admitted to so many "noble lies" over the years, it's ridiculous.

    Ever heard of Team B?
    How about the "noble lie?

    These are the two primary tools of the NeoCons, and they have been in play and ever refined since 1976 following the Halloween Massacre which effectively overthrew President Ford's cabinet.

    If you are ignorant of who and what Team B was/is, here is some suggested reading...

    "Intelligence Community Experiment in Competitive Analysis- Soviet Strategic Objectives: Report of Team B" (PDF). National Archives. [PDF file]

    Cahn, Anne H. (September 1998). Killing Detente: The Right Attacks the CIA. Pennsylvania State University Press. ISBN 0-271-01791-0.

    Gervasi, Tom (October 1986). The Myth of Soviet Military Supremacy. W W Norton & Co Inc. ISBN 0-393-01776-1.

    Korb, Lawrence J. (August 18, 2004). "It's Time to Bench 'Team B'". Center for American Progress.

    Goodman, Melvin A. (July 23, 2003). "As a CIA analyst, I've seen distortions of intelligence before". The Progressive.

    Husain, Khurram (November/December 2003). "Neocons: The men behind the curtain" . Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists 59 (06): 62–71. doi:10.2968/059006013.


    Here is the upshot...

    Team B was an independent, ad hoc "competitive intelligence assessment" exercise designed to challenge the official Soviet threat assessment with one goal in mind, to dismantle détente. This was accomplished by grossly over estimating soviet capabilities, with absurd assertions. For example, the reason they stated the the CIA was unable to detect new Russian military hardware, wasn't because the country was in economic chaos, but because their systems were so advanced, they were undetectable... with no evidence beyond the claim that "they knew the Russian mindset". Seriously!

    Here is the kicker... they were caught in ever lie, and they admitted to these lies after the Soviet fall.. justifying the noble lie by pointing to this event as vindication of those lies, America was now the sole super power... what else mattered? With the success of that exercise, Team B went to work supporting an agenda for a massive arms build-up, one that helped push the country into deficit spending and recession. When the USSR fell apart under the weight of it's own failings, the neocons believed that they were responsible, which emboldened them...

    Here we have the blueprint, the framework for all subsequent attempts to advance the neocon agenda. Which, as a side note, is two fold; to secure US position as sole superpower for the next century, creating a PaxAmericana, and to reignite the moral fiber the held together our society and heal the wounds left from the leftist counter culture. Both could be accomplished most quickly, not by using reason and honesty, but by creating larger than life evils and threats, if curiously vague, using lies and misinformation. It served them in the 80's in the arms build-up, it served them in the 90's to attempt to cripple the Clinton administration, and blossomed in 2000s with an all neocon cabinet.

    The Office of Special Projects - Pentagon - Wolfowitz

    Shortly after the 9/11 attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz create a secretive, ad hoc intelligence bureau within the Pentagon that they mockingly dub “The Cabal.” This small but influential group of neoconservatives is tasked with driving US foreign policy and intelligence reporting towards the goal of promoting the invasion of Iraq. To this end, the group—which later is folded into the slightly more official Office of Special Plans (OSP) (see 2002-2003)—gathers and interprets raw intelligence data for itself, refusing the participation of the experts in the CIA and DIA, and reporting, massaging, manipulating, and sometimes falsifying that information to suit their ends. [NEW YORKER, 5/12/2003] In October 2005, Larry Wilkerson, Secretary of State Colin Powell’s chief of staff, will say of the Cabal and the OSP, “What I saw was a cabal between the vice president of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made. Now it is paying the consequences of making those decisions in secret, but far more telling to me is America is paying the consequences.” [FINANCIAL TIMES, 10/20/2005]

    So you see it was NOT Our intelligence that got it wrong, it was Our intel that was ignored for a private intel gathering cabal set up by the VP and high ranking neocon Defense personnel.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Ohhh... one more thing... Truth is a joke. Truth is subjective, dependent on belief systems. Facts are facts regardless of what you believe.

    You stick with the truth... I'll take facts every day.

    Frankly I don't so much have a problem with how you are processing information. The issue I have with you boils down to where you are getting the "facts" you are using in your inductive reasoning process. It's a matter of garbage in, garbage out.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Who said anything about defense or arms?

    Are you really trying to say that France sold Saddam weapons? Really?

    Hmmm.... what other types of businesses are there...

    Any of you self proclaimed conservatives want to try sticking to the topic of the thread? Just curious....
    You first.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Frankly I don't so much have a problem with how you are processing information. The issue I have with you boils down to where you are getting the "facts" you are using in your inductive reasoning process. It's a matter of garbage in, garbage out.
    I cite and link much of the pertinent info. I wonder how often you do the same.

    Most of this comes from living through it, and doing ten years of research into the fine point details of the lives and 40+ year careers of those calling themselves neocons. Much of that research material comes from their own words, white papers they have written, policy papers, their opinions... it's not hard to find, in fact, they are rather proud of their "democratic revolutionary" vision... their words, not mine.

    lol... the issue I have with you, is that you come on like am emo reactionary kneejerker... Your first exchange with me was right out of the conservative network playbook for idiots. Dismiss the post with a MoveOn label... With no evidence... just your "feeling" that I must be a lefty.

    I'm not... I'm one pissed off conservative. Pissed that a radical faction of the conservative party hijacked the long standing principles of my father and grandfather's party and made a joke of those values by paying them lip service while doing the opposite.

    Let me put it to you this way... you can either join the conversation with meaningful discourse... or you can bluster playground taunts and look emo, petty, and stupid. The choice is yours. If you choose to continue using the new age conservative handbook for idiots... I'll not be responding to you further. Life is too short to waste time on people that label, kneejerk, sidetrack, derail, etc...

    IF you'd like to take issue with anything I've written, be specific, and try using some cited sources of your own to refute the facts I present. Short of that... have a nice day.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    I'm not... I'm one pissed off conservative. Pissed that a radical faction of the conservative party hijacked the long standing principles of my father and grandfather's party and made a joke of those values by paying them lip service while doing the opposite.
    Ok....

    What if I told you that traditional conservatives and the GOP have stood for a strong "America first" (arguably isolationist) foreign policy, adequately funded military, a smaller government with less taxes and greater personal freedom and the Democrats have traditionally been the party of socialism ("The New Deal" & "The Great Society"), wealth redistribution and social engineering. And like the true socialists they are, ...higher taxes and less personal freedom.

    Also note that the Democrats aren't "anti religion", they are just anti Christian.

    Would you agree?

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I wanted the title to read: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face international criminal investigation", but there wasn't enough space. Anway...

    Found this article from YahooNews.com:

    ElBaradei suggests war crimes probe of Bush team

    From the article:
    Gawd. Not another "international weapons inspector" moron fooled by Saddam trying to cover his a**.

    No mention of what we have found in Iraq.

    No mention that UNMOVIC could not account for the WMD Saddam admits he produced and never accounted for.

    The poor people still suffering from BDS need our help.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Just present wmds Saddam had that no one knew about.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I wanted the title to read: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face international criminal investigation", but there wasn't enough space. Anway...

    Found this article from YahooNews.com:

    ElBaradei suggests war crimes probe of Bush team

    From the article:
    I'd love for Bush to face trial too. It would provide solid proof that he was right and you were wrong, You were wrong and he was right.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Ok....Would you agree?

    ... if I told you that traditional conservatives and the GOP have stood for a strong "America first" (arguably isolationist) foreign policy, adequately funded military, a smaller government with less taxes and greater personal freedom
    Yes, in the last century, Joe citizen traditional conservative has stood for that.. you forgot family...

    But Joe Con has not had representation that follows that ideology since the 70's. Oh they talk a good game on the campaign trail, but their actions are big government, deficits don't matter spend spend bs!

    and the Democrats have traditionally been the party of socialism ("The New Deal" & "The Great Society"), wealth redistribution and social engineering. And like the true socialists they are, ...higher taxes and less personal freedom.
    Not sure you used derivatives of the word "social" enough times. Does that mean new age conservatives are anti-social? Social... society. Our society. You know what the root of a word is, right? Like the root of conservative is conserve. eh, skip it... topic for another thread...

    No, I don't agree. Dems aren't socialists in the derogatory terms new age conservative talking heads would like you to believe. They don't wish for no property, they like owning houses and cars too... As the richest nation, do they feel a duty to take care of those less fortunate, and the elderly? I'm pretty sure that's what Jesus would do... did... preached. The problem isn't the programs, it's the abuse of those programs. I have a friend in healthcare in a rural county, and she reports many times more conservatives on disability and the government health plan than liberals.

    Wealth re/distribution...

    Read this carefully... you need to understand this fact before the rest can make sense to you...

    All wealth is created by the working/middle class. The producers. Without them, the CEOs and majority stock holders would have nothing to sell and no services to provide. Nothing would get refined from raw ore/materials into usable products. Capiche? Now that we know where wealth comes from... maybe we should take a second look at how and to whom that wealth is redistributed to.... It aint the middle or lower classes...



    Also note that the Democrats aren't "anti religion", they are just anti Christian.
    As for hating Christians... many of the libs I've known are christians... and the ones that aren't are generally more moral and ethical than the conservatives that thump their bibles... Christian nation huh? Tell me, why is it that Christ and the bible are so very clear about excessive wealth, greed and avarice, yet people like you scream about wealth redistribution in defense of the 400 people in this country that hoard $2 trillion dollars, equal to the next 150 million people combined? It's a sin. Period. Libs don't hate christians... they hate fake christians.... the duplicitous ones... the do as I say while I do what ever I want crowd.

    Now... if you don't mind... the topic is...

    Bush, war crimes, El Beradei...

    If you can't hang with the topic... start your own thread.

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