Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 100

Thread: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigation"

  1. #61
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Actually... it's very insightful. He's dead on. There was nothing exceptional about Rome, or Greece, or the French... well... anyway...

    There is nothing exceptional about American's aside from access to abundant natural resources, a glimmer of self determination and a decimated industrial base globally after WWII. We certainly aren't now... dumbed down, fat, lazy, dependent... of course that's a broad stroke... but becoming more the reality by the day.
    It is a broad stoke and less true than too many believe. Most Americans work hard daily. Many are bright. Our biggest problem, and it's a social one, is that we promote dumb as being better than education. Too often we say I want the guy who doesn't anything to run things. I've had children tell me that you don't want to be too smart, as it is uncool to be smart. I always remind them that I doubt Bill Gates would trade his success for their stupidity. And that they shoudl be nice to nerd as they'll be working for one someday if they change their perception.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #62
    Sage
    SheWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,512

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    First let me make it clear that I was not in favor of going to War in Iraq and especially not before the Afghanistan war was won.

    Who knew they didn't go into it to win, only for fun and profit, which goes on still today.

    However I have to say that a great number of people forget there was a huge warehouse full of Artillery shells laden with Poison Gas, and that Saddam had used poison gas on his own people.

    They also for get that Saddam himself said before he was hung that he felt he had too mislead the World about him having WMDs to keep Iran from another invasion.


    So many radicals have been brainwashed by the Leftist to be hateful they are always wanting President Bush jailed for anything that comes up.

    Now I have made it very clear that I believe Obama if a worthless lying fool, and I have called for him to be charged for violating his oath of off as it relates to Article 4 Sec. 4 of the Constitution, but I never said to jail him. I have said th=at there needs to be a new law forcing every candidate for the office to prove they are leagal to run, and if found to have lied, then Jailed.

    But what I wish for now is that people stop trying to change facts. In this case I have to assume the only reason we never heard from this author on this before was book sales.

    You can read about Saddam Bluffing about WMDs here from CNN:CNN.com - Transcripts
    Like another poster said, that alone should warrant an investigation.... That sort of chicken game makes sense to me, and many analysts have pointed out that Iraq helped to balance the powers in the ME...

    So, if this is true, why the **** would our intelligence be so ignorant on such important and common sense politics in the ME... Why did our intelligence goof so bad? That is ridiculous and should be investigated.

  3. #63
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    I don't even know where to start with this... The ignorance surrounding this "debate", on both sides, is astounding. How sad that America, land of the free and home of the brave has morphed into land of the sound-byte media and home of the willfully ignorant.

    All the evidence is there, it lies in full view under the thinest of veils. First, let me say that ignorance of the facts is rarely a good legal defense.



    To believe this, one must take it as an absolute. That is to say, that short of 100% certainty any decision on action is acceptable. Or... That Bush and Co. clapped their hands over the ears, shut their eyes tight and loudly chanted LALALALALALALALALALA, I CAN"T HEAR YOU when presented with UN inspection intelligence and dead steady US intelligence going back 12 years. Mind you, we had carte blanche to overfly the country, and did so daily with some of the most sophisticated technology on the planet. More than capable of making detailed assessments of activities.



    And you don't see a contradiction to your first statement?

    How is it that overwhelming evidence and intelligence existed from professional non political agencies existed that Iraq was not a threat, and yet Bush and company remained perplexed to the point of believing with conviction the opposite was "true"?

    This is where it gets interesting...

    Ever heard of Team B?
    How about the "noble lie?

    These are the two primary tools of the NeoCons, and they have been in play and ever refined since 1976 following the Halloween Massacre which effectively overthrew President Ford's cabinet.

    If you are ignorant of who and what Team B was/is, here is some suggested reading...

    "Intelligence Community Experiment in Competitive Analysis- Soviet Strategic Objectives: Report of Team B" (PDF). National Archives. [PDF file]

    Cahn, Anne H. (September 1998). Killing Detente: The Right Attacks the CIA. Pennsylvania State University Press. ISBN 0-271-01791-0.

    Gervasi, Tom (October 1986). The Myth of Soviet Military Supremacy. W W Norton & Co Inc. ISBN 0-393-01776-1.

    Korb, Lawrence J. (August 18, 2004). "It's Time to Bench 'Team B'". Center for American Progress.

    Goodman, Melvin A. (July 23, 2003). "As a CIA analyst, I've seen distortions of intelligence before". The Progressive.

    Husain, Khurram (November/December 2003). "Neocons: The men behind the curtain" . Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists 59 (06): 62–71. doi:10.2968/059006013.


    Here is the upshot...

    Team B was an independent, ad hoc "competitive intelligence assessment" exercise designed to challenge the official Soviet threat assessment with one goal in mind, to dismantle détente. This was accomplished by grossly over estimating soviet capabilities, with absurd assertions. For example, the reason they stated the the CIA was unable to detect new Russian military hardware, wasn't because the country was in economic chaos, but because their systems were so advanced, they were undetectable... with no evidence beyond the claim that "they knew the Russian mindset". Seriously!

    Here is the kicker... they were caught in ever lie, and they admitted to these lies after the Soviet fall.. justifying the noble lie by pointing to this event as vindication of those lies, America was now the sole super power... what else mattered? With the success of that exercise, Team B went to work supporting an agenda for a massive arms build-up, one that helped push the country into deficit spending and recession. When the USSR fell apart under the weight of it's own failings, the neocons believed that they were responsible, which emboldened them...

    Here we have the blueprint, the framework for all subsequent attempts to advance the neocon agenda. Which, as a side note, is two fold; to secure US position as sole superpower for the next century, creating a PaxAmericana, and to reignite the moral fiber the held together our society and heal the wounds left from the leftist counter culture. Both could be accomplished most quickly, not by using reason and honesty, but by creating larger than life evils and threats, if curiously vague, using lies and misinformation. It served them in the 80's in the arms build-up, it served them in the 90's to attempt to cripple the Clinton administration, and blossomed in 2000s with an all neocon cabinet.

    And we are to believe, with this kind of track record, that past claims of ignorance and later admissions of lies, full admission of the noble lie, the created myths of great good vs evil, the willingness to enter into evil to accomplish "good", men that call themselves "democratic revolutionaries" are to be taken at their word?

    If the whole of our intellignece community had it right, or mostly right, over a twelve year period, with daily overflights of a country, where did the confusion come from? Why was there so much alleged handwringing over whether Iraq was a threat? It came from Team B. Wholly manufactured just as in every decade before. Here is a clue, independent intelligence analysis headed by members of a tight knit group of a powerful revolutionary faction will never result in accurate assessments, but rather support the agenda of that group at any cost, even if that means entering into evil (lying) to do so. Period. There was no question in official, professional, intel circles that Iraq was no threat.





    Bull.... Flaws? No.. that is a euphamism for outright, bold faced lies. The "flaws" came only from Team B and a special assessment group set up in the pentagon headed by Wolfowitz. These flaws follow lockstep with the tactics employed in previous years, tactics unabashedly admitted to. To ask that these be viewed as flaws by anyone who knows their history, is asking to set aside knowledge and facts. Every credible intelligence agency raised doubts and outright dismissed the sources being used by Team B and the special intel team in the pentagon.



    Bush made no judgement. The judgement was made long before Bush ever ran for president.



    The only way one can claim that test is not met, is if one remains ignorant of the DETAILS and history of the men involved and their single minded, single tactic march to fulfill a 35 year agenda.



    Shame Dr. E's "opinion" has more facts supporting it than Bush had in going to war... awfully inconvenient....
    Apparently other US Presidents were ignorant as well.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #64
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:01 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,309

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Apparently other US Presidents were ignorant as well.
    I honestly believe that the USA government thinks that we'll be bankrupt soon, and are gaining control of the energy we will need in the future, actually the energy that the military will need. Wars run on energy. I hope I'm wrong. We are controlling Iraq. We've got good control in ME. We want to operate the oil flow control valves worldwide. Don't get that confused with power to the people.

  5. #65
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post

    There is nothing exceptional about American's aside from access to abundant natural resources, a glimmer of self determination and a decimated industrial base globally after WWII. We certainly aren't now... dumbed down, fat, lazy, dependent... of course that's a broad stroke... but becoming more the reality by the day.
    Spouting a bunch anti American eurotrash dogma...lol

    A great example of this is all the grief that France, Germany, and Russia gave us over the Iraq war. As it turns out, all three countries were involved in, what can only be termed, inappropriate back channel business dealings with Iraq. Of course they didn't want Saddam taken out, it's been bad for business! Most of the countries in Europe were at one time colonial powers. We have seen how France, etc. behave as "superpowers" through history, and it is very ugly stuff indeed. I submit that Europeans are frustrated by the fact that they are irreverent in geopolitics. There is no country in Europe besides maybe the UK (which is, ironically enough is our best friend over there) that can project power internationally. Europe's dissatisfaction with the United States is simply sour grapes, and nothing more. President Bush was a great leader for America. If he put the interests of America first, well too ****ing bad for the rest of the world. That's his job!

    Now, keep whinning

  6. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    10-10-15 @ 01:31 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,069
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Spouting a bunch anti American eurotrash dogma...lol

    A great example of this is all the grief that France, Germany, and Russia gave us over the Iraq war. As it turns out, all three countries were involved in, what can only be termed, inappropriate back channel business dealings with Iraq. Of course they didn't want Saddam taken out, it's been bad for business! Most of the countries in Europe were at one time colonial powers. We have seen how France, etc. behave as "superpowers" through history, and it is very ugly stuff indeed. I submit that Europeans are frustrated by the fact that they are irreverent(Did you mean irrelevant?) in geopolitics. There is no country in Europe besides maybe the UK (which is, ironically enough is our best friend over there) that can project power internationally. Europe's dissatisfaction with the United States is simply sour grapes, and nothing more. President Bush was a great leader for America. If he put the interests of America first, well too ****ing bad for the rest of the world. That's his job!

    Now, keep whinning
    Wow... that was quite a rant. First, I'm not "whinning" (did you mean whining?) about anything...

    Yes... there were back channel deals going on, but you confuse private interests with the government.. and then of course there is the little matter of the fact that there were no WMD, no plans for WMD... Oversimplifying a very complex and decade old situation to business deals kinda shows severe lack of understanding and details.

    I agree with you that no colonial power in history, nor occupier has been a good thing for the indigenous people. Period. America included. Both as a colony and as a holder of foreign territories.

    Either way... Your reply addressed neither the claim of American exceptionalism, nor the topic of the thread...

    Bush a great leader? He and Mr. "Deficits don't matter" Cheney bankrupted this country, opened the defense accounts to a free for all under Mr. "We can't find $2 trillion" Rumsfeld. Did absolutely zero on terrorism for nine months, and then, instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan, he drops the ball and attacks a country we have bombed almost daily and had completely contained for twelve years at comparatively little cost...

    Ya, great leader...

    Oh... and by the way comrade, American's don't have leaders, and they should never be called such. They are elected public servants. The government exists at the pleasure of We the People.

    Party before countrymen fake patriots piss me off!

  7. #67
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Wow... that was quite a rant. First, I'm not "whinning" (did you mean whining?) about anything...

    Yes... there were back channel deals going on, but you confuse private interests with the government.. and then of course there is the little matter of the fact that there were no WMD, no plans for WMD... Oversimplifying a very complex and decade old situation to business deals kinda shows severe lack of understanding and details.

    I agree with you that no colonial power in history, nor occupier has been a good thing for the indigenous people. Period. America included. Both as a colony and as a holder of foreign territories.

    Either way... Your reply addressed neither the claim of American exceptionalism, nor the topic of the thread...

    Bush a great leader? He and Mr. "Deficits don't matter" Cheney bankrupted this country, opened the defense accounts to a free for all under Mr. "We can't find $2 trillion" Rumsfeld. Did absolutely zero on terrorism for nine months, and then, instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan, he drops the ball and attacks a country we have bombed almost daily and had completely contained for twelve years at comparatively little cost...

    Ya, great leader...

    Oh... and by the way comrade, American's don't have leaders, and they should never be called such. They are elected public servants. The government exists at the pleasure of We the People.

    Party before countrymen fake patriots piss me off!
    I suspect you got it from "moveon.org", the self appointed guardians of truth in our time....

    Only they know what's REALLY going on in Iraq.

  8. #68
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Wow... that was quite a rant. First, I'm not "whinning" (did you mean whining?) about anything...

    Yes... there were back channel deals going on, but you confuse private interests with the government.. and then of course there is the little matter of the fact that there were no WMD, no plans for WMD... Oversimplifying a very complex and decade old situation to business deals kinda shows severe lack of understanding and details.

    I agree with you that no colonial power in history, nor occupier has been a good thing for the indigenous people. Period. America included. Both as a colony and as a holder of foreign territories.

    Either way... Your reply addressed neither the claim of American exceptionalism, nor the topic of the thread...

    Bush a great leader? He and Mr. "Deficits don't matter" Cheney bankrupted this country, opened the defense accounts to a free for all under Mr. "We can't find $2 trillion" Rumsfeld. Did absolutely zero on terrorism for nine months, and then, instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan, he drops the ball and attacks a country we have bombed almost daily and had completely contained for twelve years at comparatively little cost...

    Ya, great leader...

    Oh... and by the way comrade, American's don't have leaders, and they should never be called such. They are elected public servants. The government exists at the pleasure of We the People.

    Party before countrymen fake patriots piss me off!
    The govt is ALWAYS involved in defense sales....even in the US. So you can bet your ass that the French govt was up to its eyeballs in those deals.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    10-10-15 @ 01:31 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,069
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The govt is ALWAYS involved in defense sales....even in the US. So you can bet your ass that the French govt was up to its eyeballs in those deals.
    Who said anything about defense or arms?

    Are you really trying to say that France sold Saddam weapons? Really?

    Hmmm.... what other types of businesses are there...

    Any of you self proclaimed conservatives want to try sticking to the topic of the thread? Just curious....

  10. #70
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    10-10-15 @ 01:31 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,069
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I suspect you got it from "moveon.org", the self appointed guardians of truth in our time....

    Only they know what's REALLY going on in Iraq.
    I don't visit political propaganda sites of any kind, right or left

    And I'm not a lib... I'm an honest conservative... though a patriot first... in the truest, most literal sense of the word.

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •