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Thread: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigation"

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The only thing Bush is guilty of is believing faulty intelligence that told him what he wanted to hear. He wanted to hear the the nuclear weapons program was ongoing, so he did. He wanted to hear the there were stockpiles of WMDs, so he did.

    As far as "war crimes," Rumsfeld should have been forced to resign after Abu Ghraib. That's about it.
    Exactly, they dismissed the analysts with information they didnt want and sought out links to al-quaeda and WMD as far as they could. The evidence was paltry to begin with.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    [QUOTE=shintao;1059429229]
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post

    There is just no groundswell to prosecute anyone. Any attempts were met with American bribery, coercion, and outright corruption. ie. The Hague, Spain, UN, etc.
    What attempts?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by sunwestdog View Post
    I agree with points of your statement. Too little too late. If he wanted to raise a stink, 2002 would have been a good time to do it. War crimes would be difficult to prove. I think he could be convicted though of being blind to anything he didn't want to see and willful ignorance. I think the punishment should be forcing him to wear a jesters outfit and do the Macarena with a monkey on Dancing with the Stars.
    That's actually kind of funny.



    Seriously though, Bush would send out Colin Powell to do it for him

    Last edited by American; 04-24-11 at 07:51 AM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    I don't even know where to start with this... The ignorance surrounding this "debate", on both sides, is astounding. How sad that America, land of the free and home of the brave has morphed into land of the sound-byte media and home of the willfully ignorant.

    All the evidence is there, it lies in full view under the thinest of veils. First, let me say that ignorance of the facts is rarely a good legal defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    There is no credible evidence that President Bush launched the war with full knowledge that Iraq did not possess WMD and did not pose any threat to U.S. interests or allies.
    To believe this, one must take it as an absolute. That is to say, that short of 100% certainty any decision on action is acceptable. Or... That Bush and Co. clapped their hands over the ears, shut their eyes tight and loudly chanted LALALALALALALALALALA, I CAN"T HEAR YOU when presented with UN inspection intelligence and dead steady US intelligence going back 12 years. Mind you, we had carte blanche to overfly the country, and did so daily with some of the most sophisticated technology on the planet. More than capable of making detailed assessments of activities.

    IMO, the subsequently-released Intelligence assessments showed no credible imminent threat.
    And you don't see a contradiction to your first statement?

    How is it that overwhelming evidence and intelligence existed from professional non political agencies existed that Iraq was not a threat, and yet Bush and company remained perplexed to the point of believing with conviction the opposite was "true"?

    This is where it gets interesting...

    Ever heard of Team B?
    How about the "noble lie?

    These are the two primary tools of the NeoCons, and they have been in play and ever refined since 1976 following the Halloween Massacre which effectively overthrew President Ford's cabinet.

    If you are ignorant of who and what Team B was/is, here is some suggested reading...

    "Intelligence Community Experiment in Competitive Analysis- Soviet Strategic Objectives: Report of Team B" (PDF). National Archives. [PDF file]

    Cahn, Anne H. (September 1998). Killing Detente: The Right Attacks the CIA. Pennsylvania State University Press. ISBN 0-271-01791-0.

    Gervasi, Tom (October 1986). The Myth of Soviet Military Supremacy. W W Norton & Co Inc. ISBN 0-393-01776-1.

    Korb, Lawrence J. (August 18, 2004). "It's Time to Bench 'Team B'". Center for American Progress.

    Goodman, Melvin A. (July 23, 2003). "As a CIA analyst, I've seen distortions of intelligence before". The Progressive.

    Husain, Khurram (November/December 2003). "Neocons: The men behind the curtain" . Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists 59 (06): 62–71. doi:10.2968/059006013.


    Here is the upshot...

    Team B was an independent, ad hoc "competitive intelligence assessment" exercise designed to challenge the official Soviet threat assessment with one goal in mind, to dismantle détente. This was accomplished by grossly over estimating soviet capabilities, with absurd assertions. For example, the reason they stated the the CIA was unable to detect new Russian military hardware, wasn't because the country was in economic chaos, but because their systems were so advanced, they were undetectable... with no evidence beyond the claim that "they knew the Russian mindset". Seriously!

    Here is the kicker... they were caught in ever lie, and they admitted to these lies after the Soviet fall.. justifying the noble lie by pointing to this event as vindication of those lies, America was now the sole super power... what else mattered? With the success of that exercise, Team B went to work supporting an agenda for a massive arms build-up, one that helped push the country into deficit spending and recession. When the USSR fell apart under the weight of it's own failings, the neocons believed that they were responsible, which emboldened them...

    Here we have the blueprint, the framework for all subsequent attempts to advance the neocon agenda. Which, as a side note, is two fold; to secure US position as sole superpower for the next century, creating a PaxAmericana, and to reignite the moral fiber the held together our society and heal the wounds left from the leftist counter culture. Both could be accomplished most quickly, not by using reason and honesty, but by creating larger than life evils and threats, if curiously vague, using lies and misinformation. It served them in the 80's in the arms build-up, it served them in the 90's to attempt to cripple the Clinton administration, and blossomed in 2000s with an all neocon cabinet.

    And we are to believe, with this kind of track record, that past claims of ignorance and later admissions of lies, full admission of the noble lie, the created myths of great good vs evil, the willingness to enter into evil to accomplish "good", men that call themselves "democratic revolutionaries" are to be taken at their word?

    If the whole of our intellignece community had it right, or mostly right, over a twelve year period, with daily overflights of a country, where did the confusion come from? Why was there so much alleged handwringing over whether Iraq was a threat? It came from Team B. Wholly manufactured just as in every decade before. Here is a clue, independent intelligence analysis headed by members of a tight knit group of a powerful revolutionary faction will never result in accurate assessments, but rather support the agenda of that group at any cost, even if that means entering into evil (lying) to do so. Period. There was no question in official, professional, intel circles that Iraq was no threat.



    Subsequent reviews also found major Intelligence flaws.
    Bull.... Flaws? No.. that is a euphamism for outright, bold faced lies. The "flaws" came only from Team B and a special assessment group set up in the pentagon headed by Wolfowitz. These flaws follow lockstep with the tactics employed in previous years, tactics unabashedly admitted to. To ask that these be viewed as flaws by anyone who knows their history, is asking to set aside knowledge and facts. Every credible intelligence agency raised doubts and outright dismissed the sources being used by Team B and the special intel team in the pentagon.

    President Bush made a value judgment.
    Bush made no judgement. The judgement was made long before Bush ever ran for president.

    No matter how erroneous, a bad decision by itself is not a war crime. There has to be a deliberate choice to launch a war with clear knowledge of the evidence under which a reasonable person would clearly not initiate such a conflict given that evidence. That test is not met.
    The only way one can claim that test is not met, is if one remains ignorant of the DETAILS and history of the men involved and their single minded, single tactic march to fulfill a 35 year agenda.

    Therefore, Dr. ElBaradei's opinion notwithstanding, I do not expect any international war crimes investigation. History will judge the decision as flawed. It won't judge it as constituting a war crime.
    Shame Dr. E's "opinion" has more facts supporting it than Bush had in going to war... awfully inconvenient....

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Don't ya just love how the hard lefties side with this nations enemies at any turn. Dhimmi's.


    j-mac
    The enemy is within and you are on their side. Not to worry, it is an internal mental thing and you haven't noticed.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The enemy is within and you are on their side. Not to worry, it is an internal mental thing and you haven't noticed.
    Being from New York, this statement makes me laugh.

    Muslim terrorists flew planes into buildings in YOUR STATE and yet the enemy is GWB and the right. That is very very

    Well you know what, the next time your state takes a plane up its ass pipe and you lose 3000 people, don't come asking me for help. Because after all, we are your ENEMY. Now I am fully content with my decision not to send any money to your state after 9-11. I wouldn't want you to be accused of being aided by the enemy.
    Last edited by dontworrybehappy; 04-24-11 at 12:44 PM.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The enemy is within
    If your internal voices are enemies telling you things, there may be a way to rectify that particular situation.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Uh, yeah! That's a credible source.

    Isn't Elbaradie linked up with the Muslim Brotherhood?
    No [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_ElBaradei#Possible_presidential_candidacy[/ur]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...e encyclopedia

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    El Baradei just wants to gain points for the next elections in Egypt. Attacking the Americans can be a good tactic to please the Arab public opinion. Because he certainly knows that it is simply impossible to judge Bush, even if he is guilty of something. Only the Americans can judge him, and I don’t see them having the desire to do it.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirepoix View Post
    El Baradei just wants to gain points for the next elections in Egypt. Attacking the Americans can be a good tactic to please the Arab public opinion. Because he certainly knows that it is simply impossible to judge Bush, even if he is guilty of something. Only the Americans can judge him, and I don’t see them having the desire to do it.
    ridiculous.

    El Beradei has been saying the same things since before the war. Lame, shallow, don't look below the surface dismissal.

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