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Thread: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigation"

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    "Another attack"

    When was the first time Hussein attacked?
    August 1990.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    I'm willing to give GWB the benefit of the doubt about Iraq, though I know that one of the orders given to the intelligence service right after 9/11 was to find some way to prove Saddam was behind it. He was looking for an excuse to get Saddam long before one arrived. But he may not have known. Someone knew. Whoever that is, that guy is the one we ought to prosecute.

    However, I will NOT let the torture slide. It's against international law. It's against American law. It violates treaties we signed. Anyone who authorized the use of torture is a war criminal and a traitor. And yes, my partisan friends, if Obama did it, he's one, too.

    We.
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    Torture.
    In.
    America.

    End of f#$king discussion. If you don't like it, you leave the civilized world and go live in Saudi Arabia.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I believe the weapons were there. Chemical rounds were found. But not in the numbers that would have made any difference. I believe the Iraqi landscape holds many secrets. And probably will continue to for many years.
    The trouble is belief isn't evidence, and the evidence we have of his crumbling infastructure, it takes a huge willingness to suspend disbelief to keep anging on to hope that Saddam was a real and serious threat that requirted invasion and thousands of lives spent.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I believe the weapons were there. Chemical rounds were found. But not in the numbers that would have made any difference. I believe the Iraqi landscape holds many secrets. And probably will continue to for many years.
    What was found were roughly 500 artillery rounds over a period of several years and in two and threes right across Iraq - there was no cache. They were remnants of the Iraq-Iran conflict, and so degraded as to be useless as weapons. A very few were suspected of having contained chemical weapons, but the state of degradation made any such findings impossible to confirm. Anyone who believes Saddam Hussein had weapons in the qualtities claimed by the Bush administration in 2003, is conveniently delusional.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think he should be prosecuted and not just for an illegal and immoral invasion, but for torture and spreading WMD. Millions of pounds of DU (depleted uranium).
    You clearly don't have a clue what DU is or what it is used for.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'm willing to give GWB the benefit of the doubt about Iraq, though I know that one of the orders given to the intelligence service right after 9/11 was to find some way to prove Saddam was behind it.
    I doubt this. I was an intelligence officer for most of my 20 year Army career. The case against Saddam Hussein, was built over many years. He had them. He used them. He killed his enemies inside Iraq with them. We had plenty of evidence that he had chemical weapons and that his generals expected him to direct their use against the western forces.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    He was looking for an excuse to get Saddam long before one arrived.
    He had ample reasons. Hussein had failed to live up to the terms of the cease fire agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    But he may not have known. Someone knew. Whoever that is, that guy is the one we ought to prosecute.
    I do not understand the desire to prosecute policy differences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    However, I will NOT let the torture slide. It's against international law. It's against American law. It violates treaties we signed. Anyone who authorized the use of torture is a war criminal and a traitor. And yes, my partisan friends, if Obama did it, he's one, too.
    Fine. But we have not tortured anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    End of f#$king discussion. If you don't like it, you leave the civilized world and go live in Saudi Arabia.
    My aren't you the powerful one?

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The trouble is belief isn't evidence, and the evidence we have of his crumbling infastructure, it takes a huge willingness to suspend disbelief to keep anging on to hope that Saddam was a real and serious threat that requirted invasion and thousands of lives spent.
    I will put you down as undecided.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    What was found were roughly 500 artillery rounds over a period of several years and in two and threes right across Iraq - there was no cache. They were remnants of the Iraq-Iran conflict, and so degraded as to be useless as weapons. A very few were suspected of having contained chemical weapons, but the state of degradation made any such findings impossible to confirm. Anyone who believes Saddam Hussein had weapons in the qualtities claimed by the Bush administration in 2003, is conveniently delusional.
    True. Such is the nature of intelligence work. After major combat operations the US made a significant effort to find the chemical and biological programs and weapons we believed Hussein had. After an enormous amount of additional work, including translating and understanding tons of captured documents it was clear that there were no weapons to speak of.

    Still, the Iraqis buried many interesting things outside their cities. We have found a few things.

    So why do Bush's enemies believe he lied? I cannot fathom it myself.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I doubt this. I was an intelligence officer for most of my 20 year Army career. The case against Saddam Hussein, was built over many years. He had them. He used them. He killed his enemies inside Iraq with them. We had plenty of evidence that he had chemical weapons and that his generals expected him to direct their use against the western forces.
    Richard Clarke, the head of the US anti-terror operations before, during, and after 9/11 has directly quoted this exchange. GWB said "find a way to prove Saddam did this." The chemical weapons you mention were the ones we gave him to fight Iran. There was no evidence whatsoever that there were any plans to use them against us. Iraq wanted us to leave them alone, not get entangled with us.

    I do not understand the desire to prosecute policy differences.
    Starting an illegal war is not a policy difference. It is murder, without justification. That's a crime. Just because you're backed by a government does not make a person above the law. It violates US and international law. I don't know how many times I can explain this to you. CRIME.

    Fine. But we have not tortured anyone.
    I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the real world here. All that hogwash about "enhanced interrogation" not being torture because we make up a new word for it is just that. It's a load of bull. Torture is torture and we tortured. There is no way to weasel out of that. Torture is contrary to the constitution, and anyone who took an oath to uphold that constitution and authorized torture violated that oath. That's treason.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Former U.N. Nuclear Weapons Inspector: "GW Bush should face criminal investigati

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Richard Clarke, the head of the US anti-terror operations before, during, and after 9/11 has directly quoted this exchange. GWB said "find a way to prove Saddam did this."
    Other than a guy hawking a book was there any other witness? Somehow I doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The chemical weapons you mention were the ones we gave him to fight Iran. There was no evidence whatsoever that there were any plans to use them against us.
    I know this to be false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Starting an illegal war is not a policy difference.
    What makes you think it was illegal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It is murder, without justification. That's a crime. Just because you're backed by a government does not make a person above the law. It violates US and international law. I don't know how many times I can explain this to you. CRIME.
    I am sensing kookiness here. Yep. Definitely kookiness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the real world here. All that hogwash about "enhanced interrogation" not being torture because we make up a new word for it is just that. It's a load of bull. Torture is torture and we tortured. There is no way to weasel out of that. Torture is contrary to the constitution, and anyone who took an oath to uphold that constitution and authorized torture violated that oath. That's treason.
    No torture took place. And just because you call it torture does not make it so.

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