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Thread: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activist

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    Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activist

    Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activist

    In her letter to Dr. Means, Dillard wrote among other things: "You will be checking under your car everyday - because maybe today is the day someone places an explosive under it." Later in the letter, Dillard added: "We will not let this abomination continue without doing everything we can to stop it."
    Although Judge Marten said that Dillard clearly intended to intimidate Dr. Means, he did not believe the letter constituted a "true threat" prohibited under FACE.
    I think that Judge is a total idiot; that statement was the absolute definition of a true threat.

    Speech that has minimal social value, communicates serious intent to harm another individual, and causes the listener/reader to fear imminent injury is considered a true threat.

    With that being the Supreme Court's definition of a true threat, from Watts v. U.S. and Virginia v. Black, does anyone have the audacity to tell me that this speech is protected speech under the first amendment?
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activist




    I think that Judge is a total idiot; that statement was the absolute definition of a true threat.

    Speech that has minimal social value, communicates serious intent to harm another individual, and causes the listener/reader to fear imminent injury is considered a true threat.

    With that being the Supreme Court's definition of a true threat, from Watts v. U.S. and Virginia v. Black, does anyone have the audacity to tell me that this speech is protected speech under the first amendment?
    Yeah, it's protected under the 1st amendment

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Yeah, it's protected under the 1st amendment
    Direct threats are not.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Direct threats are not.
    Hmmmm....If he was only in a Union then you'd get behind his rhetoric. In any case, I don't support threats like this, I prefer we win in the courts first, then in the Amendment process. Even though this was not a direct threat from this man, to the Doc.


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    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    I wonder if the judge would feel the same way if someone send him a letter stating that he should start checking for car bombs because of this ruling. I am okay with this sort of talk being legal, but only if a consistent standard is used.

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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Direct threats are not.
    The court decided that it wasn’t a direct threat. It sounded like the jerk who wrote it seriously pushed that envelope but I would rather see the courts err on the side of free speech for obvious reasons.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hmmmm....If he was only in a Union then you'd get behind his rhetoric. In any case, I don't support threats like this, I prefer we win in the courts first, then in the Amendment process. Even though this was not a direct threat from this man, to the Doc.


    j-mac
    The letter was sent to the Dr Means and it's not a direct threat to her? Or are you saying that "warning" someone about bomb being hidden under her car is not a "threat"?

    It's a joke. Letters like that from an ex-boyfriend would likely result in an injuction. Freedom of speech doesn't include intimidating an individual with violence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    The court decided that it wasn’t a direct threat. It sounded like the jerk who wrote it seriously pushed that envelope but I would rather see the courts err on the side of free speech for obvious reasons.
    I would rather the court err on the side of safety for Dr Means than people who use freedom of speech as a mask for intimidation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    I would rather the court err on the side of safety for Dr Means than people who use freedom of speech as a mask for intimidation.
    No you wouldn’t. If the courts consistently did that you would have been arrested for the opinion you just expressed.

    Don’t take your freedoms lightly. DR. Means obviously wasn’t in any real danger. Your first amendment rights are however (if you are an American that is).

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Wichita Judge fails to issue Preliminary Injunction against Anti-Abortion Activis

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    The letter was sent to the Dr Means and it's not a direct threat to her? Or are you saying that "warning" someone about bomb being hidden under her car is not a "threat"?

    It's a joke. Letters like that from an ex-boyfriend would likely result in an injuction. Freedom of speech doesn't include intimidating an individual with violence.
    Read the letter and please post for me the area's that you consider the direct threat conveyed please.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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