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Thread: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Well, for one, Boeing isn't going to sell a production line for planes that cost $200 million each for $1.8 billion and create competition for their own freaking airplane.
    So raise the price .. everything is for sale at the right price.

    The point I'm making is that the workers with there strikes are one of the main reasons the company is moving. If you research the whole thing, it was because of strikes, and those delays in line production that caused them to look elsewhere. Not saying it's good or bad, just saying why this is happening, and it seems to be as much the fault of the unions as it is the company.

    I'm sorry if anyone finds it offensive, but the first thing a company is “suppose” to look out for is it's profits. When workers strike for two months, the company doesn't close, the bills still have to be paid, as well as property taxes, and non union salaries. When production stops for approx. 17% of the year, I can see that as a problem.

    Again this is nothing against the union, they voted for a strike, and that is their right. I'm just not sure about the wisdom of unions sometimes. Here is a good article about why they struck, and what they were being offered. Boeing makes wage offer; Machinists call it 'insulting' - seattlepi.com

    I just happen to know a lot of people that would be thrilled to be earning a base pay of $27.00 an hour. This is not to say that they shouldn't try to get the best package they can get, hell everyone does that union or non union. Just sometimes, I think it's wise to take what you can get, and be happy in todays times that you have a well paying job with benefits. Course that is just my opinion.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by shintao View Post
    Why of course you can. Snicker, snicker...............LMAO!!!
    I'm not being a hypocrite about anything. That option is open to any group of people 180,000 strong that feel they are being treated unfairly. As for me .. I own a business … besides working for a company. I just happen to like my job, and enjoy everything that goes with it. I have a business for the advantage of the taxes it provides.

    As to your sarcasm to starting a full time business, it goes to show that you aren't the type to risk everything you have, and that is fine, not everyone can do that, but there are many small businessmen that have, and have become successful. To those that have, they deserve all that they are making.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes but why are they entitled to their jobs, what if 50% plus are terrible workers?
    the employer can terminate them for cause. without the union the employer could terminate the employees at will. once the employees have gained the protection of the union contract, the employer must then follow the termination process set forth in the negotiated contract

    Why should the employer be required to even negotiate with them?
    the law says that is there is a 30% showing of workers then an election must be held to determine if the majority want to be represented by a union. once the democratic election is held, if the majority votes for the union, the law provides that the employees will then be entitled to union representation, together with the laws protecting union activities. (protected activities is a term given to describe the actions of the union which are protected by law)

    What makes the employee more honest and good than the employer, that they deserve special job protections?
    the employees who have the representation obviously have more protection than they would without such representation. unionization - collective bargaining - levels the playing field. but be assured, the unionized employees do not have a position superior to that of the employer
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  4. #44
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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the employer can terminate them for cause. without the union the employer could terminate the employees at will. once the employees have gained the protection of the union contract, the employer must then follow the termination process set forth in the negotiated contract


    the law says that is there is a 30% showing of workers then an election must be held to determine if the majority want to be represented by a union. once the democratic election is held, if the majority votes for the union, the law provides that the employees will then be entitled to union representation, together with the laws protecting union activities. (protected activities is a term given to describe the actions of the union which are protected by law)


    the employees who have the representation obviously have more protection than they would without such representation. unionization - collective bargaining - levels the playing field. but be assured, the unionized employees do not have a position superior to that of the employer
    Why should their be a "level" playing field?
    They do not have the responsibility of the risk of property or investments at the job they work for.

    Why should new employees be automatically grandfathered into the union?
    Why shouldn't they have to vote for representation?
    Why shouldn't the employer be able to fire them if their demands are to high?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    I believe Unions are run like the Mafia and act as the same. They also are blindly following and anti-American who I see as a Godless Ideologue, who is bent of our destruction in favor of his idea of Socialist/Marxist utopia.
    Your belief system needs some reality injected into it. LOL! Do you also oppose the "Anti-American Socialist/Marxist utopia" military, social security, public schooling, Medicare, public infrastructure, etc. I am not asking you leave Socialist America, but just suggesting you might be happier in capitalist Mexico. LOL!

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Why should their be a "level" playing field?
    there should be a level playing field to prevent the employee from being exploited
    before unionism was pervasive, employees were obliged to do whatever the employer required - or leave
    on its face, that seems reasonable, but it's actually exploitative (or has the potential to be)
    you likely won't have to look around too far today to find someone who spent their career working for some company, only to be terminated (at will, since they were not working under union contract terms). the employer terminates them to hire a younger, cheaper employee ... and to avoid having to pay the retirement benefits to the employee who had spent his career working for the company but was just before becoming vested in that retirement plan
    by this time, the terminated older employee likely has a difficult time getting a similar job elsewhere and may not have enough working years remaining to qualify for a retirement package
    this is something the younger workers who are opposed to unionization should contemplate

    They do not have the responsibility of the risk of property or investments at the job they work for.
    they have invested their years of service. that is something they cannot recover. they have denied themselves the ability to work elsewhere to accumulate a better salary and benefits

    Why should new employees be automatically grandfathered into the union?
    the workplace is what is found to be a union activity, if the election has determined that was the decision of the majority of the rank and file. all non management employees are then covered by the union contract, whether the employee pays union dues or not. the union must represent the non dues paying bargaining unit members just as it represents the interests of the dues paying union members. the only thing the employee gets by paying dues that they do not otherwise enjoy at a bargaining unit location, is the ability to vote in the union elections (and to be an officer of the union). please note that option to pay union dues or not exists only in the right-to-work states

    Why shouldn't they have to vote for representation?
    as was noted above, it is the workplace that was elected to be represented by the union. employees who are added or who replace exiting workers are automatically union represented employees (bargaining unit members)
    in the federal sector where i gained my experience, a contractor's employees may have voted to become unionized. if at the end of that contractor's contract period, if another contractor wins the follow on contract, that new contractor inherits a unionized workplace
    the contractor and all employees may be different than what was there previously, but the work site remains a unionized bargaining unit

    just as elections can be conducted to bring a union in to represent a work place, an election can be held (again with a 30% showing of employees) to de-certify a union. in that situation 50% of the employees plus one will be enough to end the union representation at the work site


    Why shouldn't the employer be able to fire them if their demands are to high?
    the employer does not have to agree to anything. it must freely engage/participate in negotiations. there will often be an impasse of the parties. when agreement is not reached the federal impasses panel comes in to divide the baby. whichever party's position was most reasonable at the time of the impasse, as determined by the impasse panel, becomes the contract terms. so, if the union over reached, the employer's position would be found most legitimate and thus directed to be adopted. if the employer was the less reasonable party, the impasse panel would direct that the terms proposed by the union at the time of impasse would then be binding on the parties
    that aspect is little understood. if you seek too much and have to go to impasse, you will likely be the losing party
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Are you for real? Now a job at Boeing is equal to being a slave?

    You are worse than a racist because you minimize the ugliness of true slavery with such reprehensible comparisons. Have you no dignity?
    I checked my junk, I am for real. Any job makes you a slave to higher master that controls your destiny as long as you work for them. Speaking of real, do you have problems with reality, comprehension, problem solving, logical reasoning?

    For being an independent you seem to be a practicing "politically correct" professor that misconstrues the intention of statements. Did you come to this site looking for a good day of trolling?

    Last edited by shintao; 04-22-11 at 04:28 PM.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Just...

    Here's a link to the statutes you mentioned (and I used above).

    United States Code: Title 5,CHAPTER 71—LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Please drill down and post exactly which ones you believe Boeing broke.
    Geez... I even gave you a link to the exact statutes you mentioned. You could at least have the courtesy to check it out and post for us the exact statute Boeing broke.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Are you for real? Now a job at Boeing is equal to being a slave?

    You are worse than a racist because you minimize the ugliness of true slavery with such reprehensible comparisons. Have you no dignity?
    Quote Originally Posted by shintao View Post
    I checked my junk, I am for real. Any job makes you a slave to higher master that controls your destiny as long as you work for them. Speaking of real, do you have problems with reality, comprehension, problem solving, logical reasoning?

    For being an independent you seem to be a practicing "politically correct" professor that misconstrues the intention of statements. Did you come to this site looking for a good day of trolling?

    Moderator's Warning:
    Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks LawYou two, and any one else, do not attack other posters, and if you feel some one is trolling, report the post, do not comment on it in thread. Take your personal issues to a more appropriate section of the board, ie the basement.
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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    there should be a level playing field to prevent the employee from being exploited
    before unionism was pervasive, employees were obliged to do whatever the employer required - or leave
    on its face, that seems reasonable, but it's actually exploitative (or has the potential to be)
    you likely won't have to look around too far today to find someone who spent their career working for some company, only to be terminated (at will, since they were not working under union contract terms). the employer terminates them to hire a younger, cheaper employee ... and to avoid having to pay the retirement benefits to the employee who had spent his career working for the company but was just before becoming vested in that retirement plan
    by this time, the terminated older employee likely has a difficult time getting a similar job elsewhere and may not have enough working years remaining to qualify for a retirement package
    this is something the younger workers who are opposed to unionization should contemplate
    But there is no law requiring an employer to provide an retirement and if someone is willing to work for cheaper, why shouldn't he/she be replaced?

    Widespread exploitative businesses before unionization is a myth perpetuated by ****ty history teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    they have invested their years of service. that is something they cannot recover. they have denied themselves the ability to work elsewhere to accumulate a better salary and benefits
    That's not an investment, they got paid for working the whole time.
    An investment is putting up money and time in exchange for a future payout, these employees have already been paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the workplace is what is found to be a union activity, if the election has determined that was the decision of the majority of the rank and file. all non management employees are then covered by the union contract, whether the employee pays union dues or not. the union must represent the non dues paying bargaining unit members just as it represents the interests of the dues paying union members. the only thing the employee gets by paying dues that they do not otherwise enjoy at a bargaining unit location, is the ability to vote in the union elections (and to be an officer of the union). please note that option to pay union dues or not exists only in the right-to-work states
    But why should they be?
    Why should new workers automatically be grandfathered?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    as was noted above, it is the workplace that was elected to be represented by the union. employees who are added or who replace exiting workers are automatically union represented employees (bargaining unit members)
    in the federal sector where i gained my experience, a contractor's employees may have voted to become unionized. if at the end of that contractor's contract period, if another contractor wins the follow on contract, that new contractor inherits a unionized workplace
    the contractor and all employees may be different than what was there previously, but the work site remains a unionized bargaining unit

    just as elections can be conducted to bring a union in to represent a work place, an election can be held (again with a 30% showing of employees) to de-certify a union. in that situation 50% of the employees plus one will be enough to end the union representation at the work site
    New employees did not elect to be represented as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the employer does not have to agree to anything. it must freely engage/participate in negotiations. there will often be an impasse of the parties. when agreement is not reached the federal impasses panel comes in to divide the baby. whichever party's position was most reasonable at the time of the impasse, as determined by the impasse panel, becomes the contract terms. so, if the union over reached, the employer's position would be found most legitimate and thus directed to be adopted. if the employer was the less reasonable party, the impasse panel would direct that the terms proposed by the union at the time of impasse would then be binding on the parties
    that aspect is little understood. if you seek too much and have to go to impasse, you will likely be the losing party
    The employer should be completely able to walk away if the demands are to much.
    Currently they can't do that when the employee can, why don't we make that level?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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