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Thread: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Here is a question I have for all you Union backers....Does a person "own" their job?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Here is a question I have for all you Union backers....Does a person "own" their job?

    j-mac
    What do you mean? A right to a job? Control of the workplace? Does a worker have a say at work? Question is poorly asked if you ask me..
    Clarify more...


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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What do you mean? A right to a job? Control of the workplace? Does a worker have a say at work? Question is poorly asked if you ask me..
    Clarify more...

    I think it is simple, and clear cut. Does a person "Own" their job. IOW, The unions are griping, and claiming 'union busting' for Boeing moving a segment of their operations to SC. Yet they are not discontinuing their operations in that Union shop in WA state.

    So I ask again, does a person "own" their job?

    j-mac
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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think it is simple, and clear cut. Does a person "Own" their job. IOW, The unions are griping, and claiming 'union busting' for Boeing moving a segment of their operations to SC. Yet they are not discontinuing their operations in that Union shop in WA state.

    So I ask again, does a person "own" their job?

    j-mac
    Of course not..


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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Of course not..


    Tim-
    So then Boeing can move where ever they wish. Case closed.

    j-mac
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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    I think the interesting part of this case is that is directly pits the union against workers. Normally union issues are a matter of "That evil company will not pay, give etc......". Here it's that evil company making jobs in another state for more workers. That's not evil at all.
    From the ashes.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    [QUOTE=cpwill;1059439347]
    no, you showed that they had a slight decline in 2009 - a year in which unemployment rose and remained high in general. one year is not the same as "several years".
    The point is that is declining currently and will decline even futher if the GOP war against the working class is successful



    well if Wisconsin (which was a light blue state to begin with) is any indication, the main "working class" that is upset is the people "working" for governments. only the public unions were effected by the recent legislation.
    The polls have all shown that a majority of wisconsin working class stand in solidarity with the teachers who's collective bargaining rights are under attack.

    why do left-wingers insist on pretending that somehow the working class - which is a huge segment of the American population - can be defined solely within the context of public employee unions? that's like saying that the American economy can be defined by our top 10% of income earners.
    Hate to break this to you but teachers, policemen and firefighers are part of the working class. They are not the top 10% of income earners.


    (I think I've had to tell you this before) the 2012 House Budget plan is actually tax neutral. Indeed, it keeps top tax rates higher than the President's own Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Commission suggested - and they estimated that the effect would actually be a tax increase of $100 Bn. So according to one estimate, it's tax neutral and according to another it's a tax increase.
    Ryan's proposal will: "Cut taxes and other revenues by $4.2 trillion"
    Summary of House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan



    the House 2012 Budget asks the President to come together with Congressional leadership to figure out how to fix Social Security. Nowhere does it propose any policy changes whatsoever.



    the House 2012 budget does not cut Medicaid. not a single dollar was spent last year that will not be spent next year, and not a single dollar will be spent next year that does not get spent the following year. Indeed, spending on Medicaid keeps going up under the Republican plan. What happens instead is that Medicaid is transformed into a block grant, which allows state governments flexibility in systematic reform, and removes their incentive to cram as many people as possible into the system to get that "free" federal money. If Medicaid expenditures go down it will be because people are moving up. The mindset of someone who would see that as a negative boggles me.

    Both Republicans and the Democrats plan to reduce Medicare expenditures. The Presidents' plan is to have the cuts get made through rationing, which would be planned by a bureacracy known as the IPAB, and would be imposed one-size-fits-all style on America's seniors and current retirees starting in 2014. The 2012 House plan is to allow retirees to allocate their own Medicare dollars so that they decide what is important and what isn't (this is the same plan, btw, that members of Congress are on - I don't see many of them screaming about how what they need is an IPAB to make their decisions for them), but to keep the system currently in place for everyone 55 and older. So whereas the President intends to start cutting Medicare expenditures for our current retirees (who may or may not be able to make needed adjustments), the House plan is to start 10 years from now, so that anyone who will be effected will have plenty of time to plan.
    "3 Congressional Budget Office. Cost Estimate for H.R. 2, Repealing the Job-Killing Health Care Law Act. Available at http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12069/hr2.pdf.
    4 Congressional Budget Office, Letter to Chairman Ryan, April 5, 2011. Congressional Budget Office - Long-Term Analysis of a Budget Proposal by Chairman Ryan


    For Medicare, the chairman would fundamentally transform the program from its fee-for-service model to a “premium support” model beginning in 2022. Under this reform, the government would make a premium-support payment to an approved private insurance plan that was chosen by the Medicare beneficiary. (The proposal also would gradually increase the eligibility age for the Medicare program from age 65 in 2021 to age 67 in 2033). The premium support would partially subsidize the purchase of insurance and would be adjusted so that wealthier beneficiaries received smaller subsidies, sicker patients received larger payments, and lower-income seniors received more help to cover out-of-pocket expenses. Current Medicare beneficiaries would have the option to join the new premium support system or continue with the current program. Because the rate of increase for the government’s premium support would be limited, the reform would slow the growth of Medicare spending over time compared to current law. However, CBO also found that under the proposal, most elderly people would pay more for their health care than they would pay under the current Medicare system."
    Summary of House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan

    A majority of Americans are opposed to increaseing costs to our seniors.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian
    interesting how none of the 'Boeing is an evil union buster' crowd has addressed this.

    The former chairman of the National Labor Relations Board thinks this is nonsense. Thanks to Boeing, union employment in Puget Sound has increased by about 2,000 workers since the expansion.

    How, exactly, is this union busting? I've asked repeatedly for certain posters to cite the specific law or statute that Boeing broke, making their actions 'union busting'. All I get is 'but...but... they are union busting!'
    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Hell, if a company closed a facility specifically because of unionization, I don't believe it should be seen as union busting. Its just a business decision. Also, it maintains a necessary balance between worker concerns and management concerns, both of which are valid.
    Workers in one location are not 'entitled' to jobs simply because they belong to a union. If Boeing wants to oepn a second plant in another area doing the same thing, wihtout reducing the number of jobs in the first area, where is the problem?

    Suppose Boeing had talked about it, but then decided not to open another facility at all? Would the union then sue them to force them to open a new facility, saying by not building a new facility they are union busting?

    WTF people???

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The polls have all shown that a majority of wisconsin working class stand in solidarity with the teachers who's collective bargaining rights are under attack.
    Is it funny, or just ironic that people who say polls which support their position on a given subject are important, also say that polls which do not support their position on a different subject are mangles and unimportant?

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Is it funny, or just ironic that people who say polls which support their position on a given subject are important, also say that polls which do not support their position on a different subject are mangles and unimportant?
    Well if your are unconvinced by the great majority of the polling, let's check in to see how the recall elections are going for each side in this war against the working class:

    "Republicans are failing to obtain the necessary signatures to do so while Democrats are having success."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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