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Thread: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Ex-Labor Board Chairman: Union-Backed Case Against Boeing 'Unprecedented' - FoxNews.com
    The former chairman of the National Labor Relations Board told FoxNews.com that a board attorney's bid to stop Boeing from opening a production line at a non-union site in South Carolina is "unprecedented" and could have serious implications for companies looking to expand.

    The comments Tuesday from Peter Schaumber add to the roiling debate over the complaint filed last week against the aerospace giant. NLRB's acting general counsel, taking up allegations from union workers at a Puget Sound plant in Washington state, had accused Boeing of violating federal labor law by moving to open a second 787 Dreamliner airplane production line in South Carolina.
    Schaumber said the complaint is a big stretch and would mark a departure. He said that if the claim is upheld, it could jeopardize any company with unionized workers that wants to expand to a right-to-work state.

    "It would be fair to say it's unprecedented," he said.
    "The workers don't have any claim to the work," he said. "If the workers don't have any claim to the work, it wasn't retaliatory to open a new second production line. ... It is simply expanding its business operation."

    Boeing offered a similar defense, saying the jobs in South Carolina will not come at the expense of jobs in Washington state. The new production line is expected to pump out three planes a month, on top of the seven planes a month coming out of the Puget Sound area. Boeing said since the expansion decision was made, union employment in Puget Sound has increased by about 2,000 workers. Plus Boeing noted that the South Carolina factory is almost done and has involved more than 1,000 workers in the process.
    So, the union workforce has increased by 2,000 workers in Puget Sound because of Boeing... and that apparently isn't good enough for the unions.

    **** them.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    i argue that public union membership has been on the rise over the past few years. you reply that no it didn't because it fell in one of the last ten years. i point out that public union membership has indeed been rising, and is now a majority of union membership, and you reply that it can't be because overall union membership has been falling for decades.

    isn't it kind of embarrassing for you how obviously wrong you are here? why not just agree that public union membership has been growing even as private unions kill themselves off?

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    why not just agree that public union membership has been growing even as private unions kill themselves off?
    Because of the documentation I presented here that show that public unions have most recently been declining, and that was before the war this year waged on unions by the GOP.

    We will see in November of next year how the working class responds to this war that has been waged against them by not only attacking their rights to bargain collectively, but in the continued practice of tax cuts for the rich, and a proposal to cut SS and M/MM.
    Last edited by Catawba; 04-26-11 at 09:42 PM.
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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Because of the documentation I presented here that show that public unions have most recently been declining, and that was before the war this year waged on unions by the GOP.
    no, you showed that they had a slight decline in 2009 - a year in which unemployment rose and remained high in general. one year is not the same as "several years".

    We will see in November of next year how the working class responds to this war that has been waged against them by not only attacking their rights to bargain collectively
    well if Wisconsin (which was a light blue state to begin with) is any indication, the main "working class" that is upset is the people "working" for governments. only the public unions were effected by the recent legislation.

    why do left-wingers insist on pretending that somehow the working class - which is a huge segment of the American population - can be defined solely within the context of public employee unions? that's like saying that the American economy can be defined by our top 10% of income earners.

    but in the continued practice of tax cuts for the rich
    (I think I've had to tell you this before) the 2012 House Budget plan is actually tax neutral. Indeed, it keeps top tax rates higher than the President's own Bi-Partisan Debt Reduction Commission suggested - and they estimated that the effect would actually be a tax increase of $100 Bn. So according to one estimate, it's tax neutral and according to another it's a tax increase.

    and a proposal to cut SS
    the House 2012 Budget asks the President to come together with Congressional leadership to figure out how to fix Social Security. Nowhere does it propose any policy changes whatsoever.

    and M/MM.
    the House 2012 budget does not cut Medicaid. not a single dollar was spent last year that will not be spent next year, and not a single dollar will be spent next year that does not get spent the following year. Indeed, spending on Medicaid keeps going up under the Republican plan. What happens instead is that Medicaid is transformed into a block grant, which allows state governments flexibility in systematic reform, and removes their incentive to cram as many people as possible into the system to get that "free" federal money. If Medicaid expenditures go down it will be because people are moving up. The mindset of someone who would see that as a negative boggles me.

    Both Republicans and the Democrats plan to reduce Medicare expenditures. The Presidents' plan is to have the cuts get made through rationing, which would be planned by a bureacracy known as the IPAB, and would be imposed one-size-fits-all style on America's seniors and current retirees starting in 2014. The 2012 House plan is to allow retirees to allocate their own Medicare dollars so that they decide what is important and what isn't (this is the same plan, btw, that members of Congress are on - I don't see many of them screaming about how what they need is an IPAB to make their decisions for them), but to keep the system currently in place for everyone 55 and older. So whereas the President intends to start cutting Medicare expenditures for our current retirees (who may or may not be able to make needed adjustments), the House plan is to start 10 years from now, so that anyone who will be effected will have plenty of time to plan.

    One of these programs screws current seniors, the other doesn't.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    What is their freedom of association worth if when they choose unions, they are banned from doing so?

    Boeing are breaking the law. Suck it up.
    It's now against the law to move?

    It's now against the law to open new factories in other states?

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    It's now against the law to move?

    It's now against the law to open new factories in other states?
    evidently - although i think the actual charge is "attempting to grow the economy in ways that don't prop up a failing labor model"

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the House 2012 Budget asks the President to come together with Congressional leadership to figure out how to fix Social Security. Nowhere does it propose any policy changes whatsoever.

    the House 2012 budget does not cut Medicaid. not a single dollar was spent last year that will not be spent next year, and not a single dollar will be spent next year that does not get spent the following year. Indeed, spending on Medicaid keeps going up under the Republican plan. What happens instead is that Medicaid is transformed into a block grant, which allows state governments flexibility in systematic reform, and removes their incentive to cram as many people as possible into the system to get that "free" federal money. If Medicaid expenditures go down it will be because people are moving up. The mindset of someone who would see that as a negative boggles me.

    Both Republicans and the Democrats plan to reduce Medicare expenditures. The Presidents' plan is to have the cuts get made through rationing, which would be planned by a bureacracy known as the IPAB, and would be imposed one-size-fits-all style on America's seniors and current retirees starting in 2014. The 2012 House plan is to allow retirees to allocate their own Medicare dollars so that they decide what is important and what isn't (this is the same plan, btw, that members of Congress are on - I don't see many of them screaming about how what they need is an IPAB to make their decisions for them), but to keep the system currently in place for everyone 55 and older. So whereas the President intends to start cutting Medicare expenditures for our current retirees (who may or may not be able to make needed adjustments), the House plan is to start 10 years from now, so that anyone who will be effected will have plenty of time to plan.

    One of these programs screws current seniors, the other doesn't.
    cpwill predicts that the response from this will be the exact same as the response every time he has brought this up to any other left-leaning member of the board (notable exception: Kandahar).

    which is to say that the response will be silence.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    It's now against the law to move?
    it's against the law to engage in union busting
    that deprives the employess of the right of association/collective bargaining as provided by law
    if boeing's move is tied to a union busting effort - and the insider emails and the public proclaimation indicate that was intended - then the government agency, the one responsible for assuring the unions and employers interact with each other consistent with the federal law, is doing its job to step in and call out boeing for its intentional union busting efforts

    It's now against the law to open new factories in other states?
    if to do so is found to be an effort to engage in union busting, then yes, that would be unlawful. again, the documents and statements by boeing appear to confirm it was establishing the other facility to undermine the union's ability to engage in 'protected activities' [union actions]
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    Ex-Labor Board Chairman: Union-Backed Case Against Boeing 'Unprecedented' - FoxNews.com

    The former chairman of the National Labor Relations Board told FoxNews.com that a board attorney's bid to stop Boeing from opening a production line at a non-union site in South Carolina is "unprecedented" and could have serious implications for companies looking to expand.

    The comments Tuesday from Peter Schaumber add to the roiling debate over the complaint filed last week against the aerospace giant. NLRB's acting general counsel, taking up allegations from union workers at a Puget Sound plant in Washington state, had accused Boeing of violating federal labor law by moving to open a second 787 Dreamliner airplane production line in South Carolina.
    Schaumber said the complaint is a big stretch and would mark a departure. He said that if the claim is upheld, it could jeopardize any company with unionized workers that wants to expand to a right-to-work state.

    "It would be fair to say it's unprecedented," he said.
    "The workers don't have any claim to the work," he said. "If the workers don't have any claim to the work, it wasn't retaliatory to open a new second production line. ... It is simply expanding its business operation."

    Boeing offered a similar defense, saying the jobs in South Carolina will not come at the expense of jobs in Washington state. The new production line is expected to pump out three planes a month, on top of the seven planes a month coming out of the Puget Sound area. Boeing said since the expansion decision was made, union employment in Puget Sound has increased by about 2,000 workers. Plus Boeing noted that the South Carolina factory is almost done and has involved more than 1,000 workers in the process.
    So, the union workforce has increased by 2,000 workers in Puget Sound because of Boeing... and that apparently isn't good enough for the unions.

    **** them.
    interesting how none of the 'Boeing is an evil union buster' crowd has addressed this.

    The former chairman of the National Labor Relations Board thinks this is nonsense. Thanks to Boeing, union employment in Puget Sound has increased by about 2,000 workers since the expansion.

    How, exactly, is this union busting? I've asked repeatedly for certain posters to cite the specific law or statute that Boeing broke, making their actions 'union busting'. All I get is 'but...but... they are union busting!'
    Last edited by Whovian; 04-27-11 at 12:47 PM.

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    Re: Labor Board Tells Boeing New Factory Breaks Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    interesting how none of the 'Boeing is an evil union buster' crowd has addressed this.

    The former chairman of the National Labor Relations Board thinks this is nonsense. Thanks to Boeing, union employment in Puget Sound has increased by about 2,000 workers since the expansion.

    How, exactly, is this union busting? I've asked repeatedly for certain posters to cite the specific law or statute that Boeing broke, making their actions 'union busting'. All I get is 'but...but... they are union busting!'
    Hell, if a company closed a facility specifically because of unionization, I don't believe it should be seen as union busting. Its just a business decision. Also, it maintains a necessary balance between worker concerns and management concerns, both of which are valid.

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