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Thread: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I also dislike polls, especially ones where it indicates people want their cake, while eating it too.

    Sure, we all want that, but we need to be realistic too.
    You can dislike it all you want, but in this case is it really all that surprising? Do you think the picture it paints is unrealistic? Everyone agrees that we need to cut. But most people say "cut that other dude's ****, not mine."
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There's also selective reading, as jetboggieman points out.

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    You can dislike it all you want, but in this case is it really all that surprising? Do you think the picture it paints is unrealistic? Everyone agrees that we need to cut. But most people say "cut that other dude's ****, not mine."
    It paints an unsustainable picture.

    If I poll Americans asking if they want to work less hours while being paid more money, it would receive highly favorable results. But so what?

    We know American’s want to be taxed less, while receiving more services. How very very useful /sarcasm

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    It paints an unsustainable picture.

    If I poll Americans asking if they want to work less hours while being paid more money, it would receive highly favorable results. But so what?

    We know American’s want to be taxed less, while receiving more services. How very very useful /sarcasm
    So in truth, you should be disliking the reality, not the poll. The poll is but an indicator, a symptom.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    And thank you for proving my point.

    And by the way, I have said it many times, America is in the wake of a rather big crisis, and whether its tax increases, or entitlement cuts, no one seems willing to sacrifice...

    But I will point out your hypocrisy when I see it.
    The easiest way for media to skew public opinion is with a "poll".

    Problem is, the poll results are pre-determined. You just poll the right people to make sure you get that result.

    This poll is a classic example.

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    And thank you for proving my point.

    And by the way, I have said it many times, America is in the wake of a rather big crisis, and whether its tax increases, or entitlement cuts, no one seems willing to sacrifice...

    But I will point out your hypocrisy when I see it.
    I think we need both, but when it comes down to it, you have to ask yourself one question, who should have the biggest burden when it comes to solving the problem. Poor children, seniors, college students trying to better themselves, or the richest 2%? You decide.
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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    So in truth, you should be disliking the reality, not the poll. The poll is but an indicator, a symptom.
    I thought I was clear on that.

    I dislike polls, especially when they amount to having your cake while eating it too. of course those polls would lean in a particular direction.

    hey look everyone - the poll asking if you want to be a millionaire is heavily leaning towards "yes". big big news there!

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I think we need both, but when it comes down to it, you have to ask yourself one question, who should have the biggest burden when it comes to solving the problem. Poor children, seniors, college students trying to better themselves, or the richest 2%? You decide.
    Nations rise and fall on this stuff, a wise man once said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The easiest way for media to skew public opinion is with a "poll".

    Problem is, the poll results are pre-determined. You just poll the right people to make sure you get that result.

    This poll is a classic example.
    So... You continue to prove my point. Thank you.

    In other words "I don't like what the poll says, so here's excuses why it's wrong".

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    Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Briefly, The Washington Post-ABC News poll released today indicated that the American people do not support the kind of sacrifices that would be required to put the nation on a sustainable fiscal course. Even as Medicare is the leading driver of the nation's long-term fiscal imbalances, a strong majority of Americans opposes cutting Medicare spending. Fully 78% of respondents opposed Medicare spending reductions. 65% strongly opposed such savings. In a separate question on Medicare, When it came to Medicaid, 69% opposed Medicaid cuts. 52% strongly opposed them. 53% of Americans also opposed the combination of tax hikes/small reductions to Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. 72% did support raising taxes on those with incomes over $250,000, but even massive tax hikes focused on that sector would not eliminate the nation's long-term imbalances even as it would dramatically undercut private capital investment (creating a flatter long-term growth trajectory).

    This news is troubling, because it suggests that either the American public is not yet sufficiently informed about the magnitude of fiscal imbalances/drivers/steps needed and/or, even if it is sufficiently informed, is unwilling to make the sacrifices necessary. Given the growing coverage the nation's debt has received, the two debt commissions, and heated political debate tied to the FY 2011 spending bill, a lack of familiarity would be disturbing in its own right. It would suggest the kind of obliviousness to key issues that undermines informed civic engagement.

    Strong leadership will be imperative if a meaningful fiscal consolidation path is to be agreed this year. The nation's political leaders will need to make deeply unpopular choices and sell the American people on those choices. Whether such leadership will be forthcoming remains to be seen. S&P has its doubts.

    Even if tough decisions are agreed this year, an equally important issue will concern whether those decisions will be implemented or terminated. In a democratic society, a wide gap between public opinion and the policy framework cannot be sustained indefinitely. Ultimately, the gap is typically eliminated from the election of new leaders who change course. A transformational leader who can bring people together can close the gap by persuading the public so that public opinion changes. That is a less common scenario than the former. Most leaders--corporate and political--are not of the transformational variety.

    Finally, delay in laying out a credible fiscal consolidation path and launching implementation will only exacerbate the situation. The long-term imbalances will grow even larger on something even close to the current policy path. In addition, every decision that is made today that postpones credible fiscal consolidation could reduce the United States' strategic flexibility going forward e.g., acting now when the U.S. is in a period of abnormally low interest rates would be optimal; trying to react when interest rates are rising (either due to a continued cyclical recovery, possible onset of inflation, or rising risk premia) would make things far more complicated. In the former scenario, the impact on macroeconomic growth could be somewhat limited. In the latter, it could be substantial and adverse (shift in capital flows, larger fiscal consolidation needed due to higher debt servicing costs or worse, lack of transition due to declining access to credit, etc.).
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 04-20-11 at 12:34 PM.

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I thought I was clear on that.

    I dislike polls, especially when they amount to having your cake while eating it too. of course those polls would lean in a particular direction.

    hey look everyone - the poll asking if you want to be a millionaire is heavily leaning towards "yes". big big news there!
    A little more important that that. It shows that anyoe actually cutting these things will likely face consequences. I assure you our elected officals are paying attention to such polls. This is part of the reason this debate has lasted so long.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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