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Thread: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    I hate polls.

    They asked 1,000 people and many of us blindly figure that's representative of 300 million. I didn't mind the questions they asked this time, but who's home to catch these calls? Anyone ever wonder that? Are they made during the day? In the evening? On weekends? Are they made cross-country? Or in the rust belt? What's magic about 1,000? Why not just ask 25?

    I completely agree with your sentiments here:

    Maybe it's time to stop blaming the government for everything and start being introspective about ourselves, the People. Our government is only as competent/effective as the electorate that chooses them.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I hate polls.

    They asked 1,000 people and many of us blindly figure that's representative of 300 million. I didn't mind the questions they asked this time, but who's home to catch these calls? Anyone ever wonder that? Are they made during the day? In the evening? On weekends? Are they made cross-country? Or in the rust belt? What's magic about 1,000? Why not just ask 25?

    I completely agree with your sentiments here:
    The term you are looking for is called self-selection and it is something that polliing agencies are very aware of and have strategies to account for.

    Also, if you want to know why they go for a certain number of people to poll, here is the equation -> Margin of error - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The term you are looking for is called self-selection and it is something that polliing agencies are very aware of and have strategies to account for.

    Also, if you want to know why they go for a certain number of people to poll, here is the equation -> Margin of error - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Thanks, Mega. But now I'm even more confuzed. Yikes! What's an "acceptable" margin of error? If there's a 3% margin of error, what does that do to the results? Surely it doesn't just mean that the answers can be skewed by 3% either way? Or does it? (How could they know that?) I don't suppose you have the patience to explain it in English...
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Which is why we became the empowered populace in the history of mankind. Thank you.

    How many times do you have to see this fail before you guys learn? Socialism fails because you eventually run out of other people's money to spend.
    Socialism fails when programs $ exceed input $. Medicare and SS can be fixed by raising the amount paid in from day 1 of employment and in the case of SS eliminating any cap.

    Raise taxes and watch unemployment skyrocket to 20+ percent, which is common elsewhere in the world.
    Raising taxes on the rich will have no such affect.

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I hate polls.

    They asked 1,000 people and many of us blindly figure that's representative of 300 million. I didn't mind the questions they asked this time, but who's home to catch these calls? Anyone ever wonder that? Are they made during the day? In the evening? On weekends? Are they made cross-country? Or in the rust belt? What's magic about 1,000? Why not just ask 25?

    I completely agree with your sentiments here:
    You raise fair questions. The questions you asked are known I am sure by the company taking the poll as well as the people reporting on it if they wanted to find out. Most polls of this type strive for a good cross section using a variety of conditions. The poll company may ask a bunch of qualifying questions to try and insure they are getting a good cross section by passing on people if once they have hit their limit on dem/rep; old/young; male/female etc. Or they may just take X number of people, but in these instances would then break out the groupings so people can decide if the poll was skewed.

    Statistics have proven to work. It is used in business ( i.e. by auditors) as well as politics. Just a more efficient and quicker way of getting to an answer.

    Especially in politics, can he poll be biased, yes. Most cmmonly in the phrasing of the question.

    Sp just like everything else used correctly and viewed with caution they can be used to get at least a directional view.

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    The elderly voted for Repubs in 2010 primarily because Obamacare cut out one of their "entitlements" namely Advantage care, a govt. subsidized additional insurance. Somehow they thought that the Repubs were pro medicare when in fact, as Ryan has shown,they want to get rid of it. Now the elderly realize that and their hopping mad, as are those under 55 who will not get it when they retire. Ryan's plan and the 95% backing of it by repubs will backfire on them. Reagan learned this lesson when he promised to end medicare and then backed off.

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Thanks, Mega. But now I'm even more confuzed. Yikes! What's an "acceptable" margin of error? If there's a 3% margin of error, what does that do to the results? Surely it doesn't just mean that the answers can be skewed by 3% either way? Or does it? (How could they know that?) I don't suppose you have the patience to explain it in English...
    Polling is a strange phenomenon in our society today.

    It is just as often part of the PR feedback loop as a check of the pulse of the demographic in question.

    "What parts of the "messaging" are gaining traction and which not?" Etc.

    And both the selection of the sample and the phrasing of the questions can totally skew the results of a less than honest pollster.

    Our little polls here are more useful to us because we question/answer with people we are familiar with, for instance. And often know who voted how, which allows us to make a good assessment of the results.

    I only give lightly weighted credence to national polls, especially when powerful vested interests are at play.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what just claim do those who cannot pay for their own existence have on those of us who can
    The claim of injustice for all for starter!

    "Teach us, train us!" Provide educational opportunities that truly lead to pathways of economic properity rather than "stereo-typical" career paths. Stop gaming legislation that do more to hold the poor and minorities back and instead remove obstacles that prohibit job growth or job retention for the poor and/or minorities.

    Politicians gave these such "rights" to the states, but IMO, they've bungled them miserably. How so? Take welfare, for example. In most states, clients can apply for welfare until the dependent child reaches age 18. There's no incentive for the single parent (mother) to apply for work if she has 2+ children to raise yet she's uneducated, poorly training and has no skills to advance herself let alone for the sake of her children. So, most will just sit back and collect state-sponsored support. Then politicians, as well as the more affluent, will label such individuals as lazy, deadbeats. To an extend, I would agree...

    ...until you look at the history of conservative legislation designed purposely to "keep blacks and minorities in their place". But these such laws don't just negatively affect minorities or specific cultural groups. There are many poor White Americans who suffer from inadequante education and training as well.

    Provide the right avenues bywhich people can improve their quality of life and the so-called welfare state can reach near erratication.

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Thanks, Mega. But now I'm even more confuzed. Yikes! What's an "acceptable" margin of error? If there's a 3% margin of error, what does that do to the results? Surely it doesn't just mean that the answers can be skewed by 3% either way? Or does it? (How could they know that?) I don't suppose you have the patience to explain it in English...
    if the margin of error is 3%, and the polling results are 51%, then the actual public feeling on the matter can deviate as much as 54% to 48% (+ or - 3).

    If you want to be even more confused look at the confidence level part of the equation. If a poll has a 95% confidence level, that basically means there is a 5% chance that the results are just wacky and are way off.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-21-11 at 04:35 PM.

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    Re: Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

    Hmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast
    ...tax cuts for the rich that is not debt reduction.
    Weren't you one of those who argued that Pres. Obama would never apply revenue from higher taxes toward paying down the debt?

    Seems to me you've just endorsed such a philosophy...by a liberal president no less. Don't that feel good...to admit ever so slightly you were wrong?

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