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Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

So removing a single facet equals a 'busted' union?

Seems someone has been feeding you a 5 course meal of disinformation.

The ability to collectively bargain is what makes a union a union, without that they have nothing.
 
If the Governor had run on ending collective bargaining that would be true, but since he didn't, it is obviously not true.
Well the governor ran on ending the debt crisis did he not, meaning hard choices where to be made.









If things get bad they can just discontinue the new tax breaks they provided for the corporations! :
Remember corporation don't have to stay in Wisconsin, corporation can pick up and move to a right to work state and a state with a cheaper tax rate. Government employees and private employees generally can not make that choice with out some sort of consequences.


The problem for Walker lies in the fact that the people of WI realize it wasn't lavish lifestyles of their teachers, police, and firefighters that caused the financial problems the state is fac
It's wasn't strictly the pay. it was the extended benefit package that cost the state. Now if the people of Wisconsin wish to pay for it with a higher tax rate so be it, it's on them. If this is the case then they should do their home work and pay attention to who is running for governor. Wisconsin if it continues down this road will lose it corporations to more friendly states. State employees will be laid off eventually, payments made by IOU's and then eventually insolvency and then there isn't a damn the unions can do. Again this will be up to the people of Wisconsin, perhaps they should pay close attention to California, New York, Connecticut, Michigan and Illinois. Her majors cities will begin look like Detroit.
 
The ability to collectively bargain is what makes a union a union, without that they have nothing.
A company that we deal with thought the same thing so it went union. Out of 50 employees they now have about 10 left and these jobs will also go through attrition and their jobs will be out sourced to third party contractors.
 
Well the governor ran on ending the debt crisis did he not, meaning hard choices where to be made.

Perhaps changing the subject will work for him too when he runs for reelection.


Remember corporation don't have to stay in Wisconsin, corporation can pick up and move to a right to work state and a state with a cheaper tax rate. Government employees and private employees generally can not make that choice with out some sort of consequences.

Only if other states are also willing to shortchange education in favor of more tax cuts for corporations.


It's wasn't strictly the pay. it was the extended benefit package that cost the state.

it wasn't teachers, policeman and firefighters that caused the states' money problems, it was the recession caused by crooks on Wall Street, a housing bubble that burst and giving away to much revenue in tax cuts for the wealthy.

Now if the people of Wisconsin wish to pay for it with a higher tax rate so be it, it's on them.

Or, how about they just discontinue the tax breaks that necessitated the cuts to education.

If this is the case then they should do their home work and pay attention to who is running for governor.

Little late for that since they were lied to by their candidate. Nothing that a reelection can't fix however.
Wisconsin if it continues down this road will lose it corporations to more friendly states.

So your view is that whoever is willing to have the most stupid kids wins???
 
A company that we deal with thought the same thing so it went union. Out of 50 employees they now have about 10 left and these jobs will also go through attrition and their jobs will be out sourced to third party contractors.

How did letting the unions be dismantled work out for the people of Germany?
 
How did letting the unions be dismantled work out for the people of Germany?
Can't speak for the Germans but I can say this, Germany is the one country that is fairing best in the European economy.
 
Can't speak for the Germans but I can say this, Germany is the one country that is fairing best in the European economy.

You mean after we went to war to remove the Fascists there that dismantled their unions?
 
Perhaps changing the subject will work for him too when he runs for reelection.

What's that supposed to mean? Threats and intimidation are all you thugs have at the end of the day.

Only if other states are also willing to shortchange education in favor of more tax cuts for corporations.


:roll: Obviously the problems we have in this country with education is NOT the amount of money we throw at it. But it is amusing to hear you sniveling little class warriors whine.

it wasn't teachers, policeman and firefighters that caused the states' money problems, it was the recession caused by crooks on Wall Street, a housing bubble that burst and giving away to much revenue in tax cuts for the wealthy.


:yawn: Same old crap for everything with you libs isn't it? Rick Maddow says it, and you guy's dance with the same tune over, and over, and over....:monkey

Or, how about they just discontinue the tax breaks that necessitated the cuts to education.

How about these ingrates get back to work and stop using our kids as agitprop.

Little late for that since they were lied to by their candidate. Nothing that a reelection can't fix however.

Hmmm....I wonder....did the Union back Walker? I think not, but nice try.

So your view is that whoever is willing to have the most stupid kids wins???

Like I said, throwing money at our schools is not the problem with education.


j-mac
 
Like I said, throwing money at our schools is not the problem with education.

You think cutting funding is going to make it better do you?
 
Actually, there WAS NO INSOLVENCY when Walker first took office, although there was a budget deficit that needed to be addressed. Walker campaigned on that. What is the first thing Walker did? Gave huge tax breaks to the rich, and to corporations, after accepting campaign cash from the Koch Brothers. What is the second thing Walker did? Attempted to balance what was now a HUGE deficit, due to those tax cuts, on the backs of the teachers.

The projected costs of the tax cuts - $117.2 to $140 million. The projected WI deficit - $3.6 billion. You really, truly, quite incredulously, believe that the tax cuts turned a smallish deficit into a "huge deficit"?

I live in N. IL. and I know the tax cuts have worked to some extent, as I know of a couple of businesses that have already moved and some that are planning on moving to WI.

Edit, in case you doubt the numbers:

http://factcheck.org/2011/03/walkers-tax-cuts/
 
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If things get bad they can just discontinue the new tax breaks they provided for the corporations! :sun

Yes, saving the state approximately 100 million dollars by increasing taxes on business will turn everythign peachy. Just further proof that those on the left have no concept of budgets.
 
You mean after we went to war to remove the Fascists there that dismantled their unions?

We went there because of the injury to their unions?
 
When Walker is recalled early next year, then you will realize that the crap he is trying to pull does not represent the will of the people.

Not so quick. A majority in WI do not believe Walker should be recalled. I think you may be in for a rude awakening.

Poll: Russ Feingold ties Scott Walker in potential Wisconsin recall | The Raw Story

Asked whether Walker should be recalled, 51 percent of respondents said no, while 44 percent said yes.
 
You mean after we went to war to remove the Fascists there that dismantled their unions?
I am not sure what you are referring to but, I assume you must be referring to WW2. If this is the case we didn't go to war with Germany because their were union busting fascist. Anyway we are talking about Wisconsin, although if you like I would be more than happy to discuss WW2 with you on another thread. BTW a side bar, in which you are referring to Germany's Unions, you first go back to WW1, this too, I would be happy to discuss on another thread.
 
I am not sure what you are referring to but, I assume you must be referring to WW2. If this is the case we didn't go to war with Germany because their were union busting fascist. Anyway we are talking about Wisconsin, although if you like I would be more than happy to discuss WW2 with you on another thread. BTW a side bar, in which you are referring to Germany's Unions, you first go back to WW1, this too, I would be happy to discuss on another thread.

The left's contention is that Hitler disbanded the unions in Germany prior to WW2. Which means that Walker is the equivalent to Hitler, or some such nonsense.
 
The left's contention is that Hitler disbanded the unions in Germany prior to WW2. Which means that Walker is the equivalent to Hitler, or some such nonsense.
That's what I figured, catawba may wish to compare but this not going to change the fact that Wisconsin is broke and going down the road to insolvency. The unions have a chance to survive with Walker but if it goes before a state/federal bankruptcy court then the union will have no say what so ever, this will be the final death nail. Although no matter what happens either for or against the unions, this is all coming to head and the states have to react and it going to be very very painful fore those still on the nipple of the state..oh and the private sector as well.
 
Yes, saving the state approximately 100 million dollars by increasing taxes on business will turn everythign peachy. Just further proof that those on the left have no concept of budgets.

if Wisconsin has no interest in saving $100 million dollars then they have no fiscal emergency.
 
We went there because of the injury to their unions?

I am not sure what you are referring to but, I assume you must be referring to WW2. If this is the case we didn't go to war with Germany because their were union busting fascist. .

Never said we did. Context people!



How did letting the unions be dismantled work out for the people of Germany?

Can't speak for the Germans but I can say this, Germany is the one country that is fairing best in the European economy.

You mean after we went to war to remove the Fascists there that dismantled their unions?
 
Never said we did. Context people!
At any rate your example would be inconsistent, just look at that rest of the European economy which is basically bankrupt and stagnant and the governments just about insolvent. Germany I not failing because of the weaker Euro and it also has the largest imports behind China, this has nothing to do with the unions. California. Wisconsin. Illinois, New york and others can be better compared to Greece which this country's government has a heavy hand in entitlements and as a result has gone under water.
 
if Wisconsin has no interest in saving $100 million dollars then they have no fiscal emergency.

I, and most conservatives, believe there is a benefit to tax cuts in attracting businesses. I have seen that benefit, as a couple of companies have already relocated from N. illinois to WI.

But the overall point is that reversing 140 million in business relocation tax cuts is not going to help a 3.6 billion dollar deficit. PSU employees make up 20% percent of total WI spending or 60% of the state's operations budget. The tax cuts, infinitesimally less.
 
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I, and most conservatives, believe there is a benefit to tax cuts in attracting businesses. I have seen that benefit, as a couple of companies have already relocated from N. illinois to WI.

But the overall point is that reversing 140 million in business relocation tax cuts is not going to help a 3.6 billion dollar deficit. PSU employees make up 20% percent of total WI spending or 60% of the state's operations budget. The tax cuts, infinitesimally less.

Such evidence as you present is too subjective. You likely don't know all the factors involved. Present any study that actually, and objectively shows tax cuts produce jobs.
 
Such evidence as you present is too subjective.

True. Very subjective. What is not subjective is the alleged cost of the tax cuts in comparison to state spending and WI's deficit.
 
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True. Very subjective.

So, do you have anything else? Let me give you some of what I have;

Consider the $100 billion in personal tax rebates that were issued as part of a broader economic stimulus effort in 2008. Only about one-third of the total amount was spent. A University of Michigan study in December 2008 concluded that these rebates provided “little ‘bang for the buck’ as economic stimulus.”

Similarly, a series of tax cuts in 2003 fell far short of targeted job growth. The Bush administration claimed the tax cuts would create 1.4 million jobs, in addition to some 4.1 million jobs expected to be generated over an 18-month period. But EPI tracked the initiative and found that not only did the additional 1.4 million jobs not appear, but the 4.1 million jobs that had been expected without the tax cuts never materialized either. By the end, the economy only saw an additional 2.4 million jobs added to the economy.

Tax cuts won’t create jobs

So what did John Q. Taxpayer get for all that tax cutting? Certainly not jobs, but instead a huge deficit bill now coming due. Nonetheless, the debates in Washington now still focus on more tax cuts in 2011. So long as that's the focus, the U.S. unemployment situation will continue to stagnate or worsen.

http://uslaboragainstwar.org/downloads/Why Tax Cuts Dont Create Jobs.Rasmus.pdf

Tax cuts may comfort the comfortable, to quote consultant Robert Shrum, but there’s not a convincing case that they result in new jobs.

Extending the Bush Tax Cuts: Would They Create More Jobs? Or Just Comfort The Comfortable? - CBS MoneyWatch.com
 
So, do you have anything else? Let me give you some of what I have;

Consider the $100 billion in personal tax rebates that were issued as part of a broader economic stimulus effort in 2008. Only about one-third of the total amount was spent. A University of Michigan study in December 2008 concluded that these rebates provided “little ‘bang for the buck’ as economic stimulus.”

Similarly, a series of tax cuts in 2003 fell far short of targeted job growth. The Bush administration claimed the tax cuts would create 1.4 million jobs, in addition to some 4.1 million jobs expected to be generated over an 18-month period. But EPI tracked the initiative and found that not only did the additional 1.4 million jobs not appear, but the 4.1 million jobs that had been expected without the tax cuts never materialized either. By the end, the economy only saw an additional 2.4 million jobs added to the economy.

Tax cuts won’t create jobs

So what did John Q. Taxpayer get for all that tax cutting? Certainly not jobs, but instead a huge deficit bill now coming due. Nonetheless, the debates in Washington now still focus on more tax cuts in 2011. So long as that's the focus, the U.S. unemployment situation will continue to stagnate or worsen.

http://uslaboragainstwar.org/downloads/Why Tax Cuts Dont Create Jobs.Rasmus.pdf

Tax cuts may comfort the comfortable, to quote consultant Robert Shrum, but there’s not a convincing case that they result in new jobs.

Extending the Bush Tax Cuts: Would They Create More Jobs? Or Just Comfort The Comfortable? - CBS MoneyWatch.com

I'm not going to get into this conversation again. Little for either of us to gain.

However, if you want to talk about how the 140 million dollars in tax cuts in WI created a 3.8 billion dollar deficit, or how getting rid of the small business tax breaks but not doing anything about the PSU employee spending in WI which contributed large amounts to their deficit I am more then willing to have that discussion.
 
I'm not going to get into this conversation again. Little for either of us to gain.

However, if you want to talk about how the 140 million dollars in tax cuts in WI created a 3.8 billion dollar deficit, or how getting rid of the small business tax breaks but not doing anything about the PSU employee spending in WI which contributed large amounts to their deficit I am more then willing to have that discussion.

It's important that we not base our opinions on faulty assumptions. Assuming that tax cuts lead to jobs is not supported by studies, and it is important to recognize this.

As for Wisconsin, that too is more complicated than blaming either the unions or tax cuts. If you busted the union completely, did away with all their benefits, you would not save Wisconsin. Like the federal government, you need a combination of efforts, and the burden should not be placed on the least capable alone.
 
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