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Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

Catawba said:
No system is perfect. I prefer a representative government over a dictatorship.

I am satisfied that the American people are smart enough to realize who is rich and who is not, and which party most closely represents their interests, and which party representes the interests of the rich.
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Then you support what happened in Wisconsin. At least most of the Conservatives I disagree with are consistent. You don’t seem to have any kind of moral convictions or rules that guide your decision making.

Do you just take orders from politicians on high who hand down talking points for you or do you have a line drawn in the sand somewhere?
 
GPS_Flex said:
Then you support what happened in Wisconsin. At least most of the Conservatives I disagree with are consistent. You don’t seem to have any kind of moral convictions or rules that guide your decision making.
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The Governor did not run on union busting and he will not be reelected. That's how the system is supposed to work, if that is what you mean. I seek to promote what is good for my fellow Americans, all of them, not just the wealthy. That is my guide.
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Catawba said:
GPS_Flex said:
The Governor did not run on union busting and he will not be reelected. That's how the system is supposed to work, if that is what you mean. I seek to promote what is good for my fellow Americans, all of them, not just the wealthy. That is my guide.
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I don't know what the governor "ran on" but he was elected governor and together with the other elected officials of Wisconsin, they have passed a new law. I'm happy to hear that you support the process that took place in Wisconsin.

You don't seek to promote what is best for all Americans, you promote what you FEEL is best for all Americans at any given time. As I said, you lack a true moral foundation for your principals and beliefs. I respect anyone who stands up for what they honestly believe is the best thing for America but as I said, you can't even decide whether you support minority rights or mob rules. When you figure out where you actually stand on an issue, let me know and we'll talk some more.
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GPS_Flex said:
I don't know what the governor "ran on" but he was elected governor and together with the other elected officials of Wisconsin, they have passed a new law.
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Fortunately, the state's voters know what the Governor ran on, and it wasn't union busting, and the courts have not yet decided if the law is even legal yet.

You don't seek to promote what is best for all Americans, you promote what you FEEL is best for all Americans at any given time. As I said, you lack a true moral foundation for your principals and beliefs. I respect anyone who stands up for what they honestly believe is the best thing for America but as I said, you can't even decide whether you support minority rights or mob rules. When you figure out where you actually stand on an issue, let me know and we'll talk some more.
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I put my fellow American's health and welfare before personal greed of the few as laid out in our Constitution as well as the religious training I grew up with that says basically the same thing, that helping our fellow man is a greater good than enhancing one's personal wealth. What's your guide?
 
Drink some more blue kool aid.....you folks had control of Congressfor 40 years...and NOTHING changed, are you really so dense as to think the Dems are going to change anything now?

Same **** different decade and the lemmings of the Left jus tnod their little heads and keep swallowing.


Catawba said:
No I found polls that show a majority favor discontinuing the tax cuts for the rich, and you found some polls that show people do not want their taxes raised. Two different subjects. The deciding poll will be in November of next year.
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Catawba said:
Fortunately, the state's voters know what the Governor ran on, and it wasn't union busting, and the courts have not yet decided if the law is even legal yet.
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And apparently the voter's in WI agree with the governor on this. The unions spent a lot of money and time on sucessfully tying Prosser to Walker and making the supreme court election a referendum on Walker and the "union busting" bill. The Wisconsin tax payer, and Walker and his "union busting" bill, won.

And they won in a situation with very high emotions from the left that will be unlikely to be duplicated in the long term. This doesn't bode well for unions and their puppets on the left, in the state of Wisconsin, for years to come.
 
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Taylor said:
That's of course wrong - but not I think what you were arguing earlier. Certainly you agree that not all democracies are republics?

I think it's enough to say that our government has elements of both. I would argue that the democratic elements operate at the state and local level (e.g. in deciding a referendum). The federal government is a republic plain and simple. People have no direct say whatsoever in its legislative, executive, or judicial functions. If some people find it more palatible to call it a "representative democracy" because 1/3 of it is elected democratically, then fine -- but the distinction is rhetorical - the government is the same either way (the few rule over the many).
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A representative democracy is a form of a republic. All democracies are generally a form of a republic unless they have some sort of monarchy like the UK so therefor UK could not be considered a republic. "Republic: a government where most decisions are made with reference to established laws, rather than the discretion of a head of state, and therefore monarchy is today generally considered to be incompatible with being a republic."
Not all democracies are a republic... Sense we have a representative democracy I would consider us a democratic republic...
 
buck said:
The Wisconsin tax payer, and Walker and his "union busting" bill, won.
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A bit premature there, aren't you?

Wisconsin Judge Maintains Restraining Order After Court Testimony

"For those looking for a quick resolution to Wisconsin’s union-busting bill, you are going to be disappointed. Judge Maryann Sumi of Dane County decided to maintain the restraining order on Governor Walker’s bill until she decides whether the senate committee meeting that the Republicans hastily put together to pass the bill violated the state’s open meetings law. Although the bill is still in limbo, today’s court proceedings provided some interesting testimony.

As previously reported, Judge Sumi placed a restraining order on the union-busting bill after the district attorney in Dane County filed a complaint. After the restraining order was in place, the governor’s administration said they would start implementing the bill because they believed it was published. During a hearing, it was discovered that state Republican leaders ran an end-around on the secretary of state to try and get the bill published.

The judge once again reiterated her decision on the restraining order. After the hearing, people within the governor’s administration said the bill was still published regardless of what the judge said. The next day, the judge not only continued the retraining order but also said the bill was not published. If anyone defied her order, they would be held in contempt."
Wisconsin Judge Maintains Restraining Order... | Gather
 
TheDemSocialist said:
A representative democracy is a form of a republic. All democracies are generally a form of a republic unless they have some sort of monarchy like the UK so therefor UK could not be considered a republic. "Republic: a government where most decisions are made with reference to established laws, rather than the discretion of a head of state, and therefore monarchy is today generally considered to be incompatible with being a republic."
Not all democracies are a republic... Sense we have a representative democracy I would consider us a democratic republic...
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We're a Representative Republic. Not the gooblidity gook you are on about.
 
Catawba said:
A bit premature there, aren't you?

Wisconsin Judge Maintains Restraining Order After Court Testimony

"For those looking for a quick resolution to Wisconsin’s union-busting bill, you are going to be disappointed. Judge Maryann Sumi of Dane County decided to maintain the restraining order on Governor Walker’s bill until she decides whether the senate committee meeting that the Republicans hastily put together to pass the bill violated the state’s open meetings law. Although the bill is still in limbo, today’s court proceedings provided some interesting testimony.

As previously reported, Judge Sumi placed a restraining order on the union-busting bill after the district attorney in Dane County filed a complaint. After the restraining order was in place, the governor’s administration said they would start implementing the bill because they believed it was published. During a hearing, it was discovered that state Republican leaders ran an end-around on the secretary of state to try and get the bill published.

The judge once again reiterated her decision on the restraining order. After the hearing, people within the governor’s administration said the bill was still published regardless of what the judge said. The next day, the judge not only continued the retraining order but also said the bill was not published. If anyone defied her order, they would be held in contempt."
Wisconsin Judge Maintains Restraining Order... | Gather
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The judge is a stooge, the bill was passed legally, this is how Liberals operate, if they can't get their way they find a "friendly" judge and sue.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
A representative democracy is a form of a republic. All democracies are generally a form of a republic unless they have some sort of monarchy like the UK so therefor UK could not be considered a republic. "Republic: a government where most decisions are made with reference to established laws, rather than the discretion of a head of state, and therefore monarchy is today generally considered to be incompatible with being a republic."
Not all democracies are a republic... Sense we have a representative democracy I would consider us a democratic republic...
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Why do you try to turn every thread into a debate about socialism vs democracy etc? Can't you just debate the topic of the thread?
 
MrVicchio said:
We're a Representative Republic. Not the gooblidity gook you are on about.
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:doh A "representative republic" is the same thing as a representative democracy.. We use democracy to elect our representatives (congress men/women)......
 
GPS_Flex said:
Why do you try to turn every thread into a debate about socialism vs democracy etc? Can't you just debate the topic of the thread?
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First off it wasnt me that brought up the debate about republic v democracy and repuiblic=democracy, it was you stating this "The US isn’t a democracy and neither is Wisconsin. They are both constitutional republics.

I really must laugh at you right now though. You are working overtime defending Hugo (the expropriator) Chavez in another thread as a non-elitist, non-thug “defender of the people” and jump in here to claim that the events that occurred in Wisconsin were the result of elitist thuggary?

You are always entertaining my friend."
Im simply defending my point after it was brought upon me...
I simply stated is this is what happens in a democracy stuff like this and democracy isnt a nice clean ordeal its messy...
You are the one that brought this thread off topic i simply was and have been defending my points..
 
Catawba said:
A bit premature there, aren't you?
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Not really. Your contention was that the "voters know what Walker ran on and it wasn't union busting". Rather strongly implying that the voters of WI do not like what Walker did.

The re-election of Prosser (even with the desperate recount attempt of kloppenburg) shows that the majority of voters do actually like what Walker did.

Prosser was re-elected even though most things favored democrats in this election. A typically low turnout election coupled with high emotions on the left and high profile local races in heavily democrat districts and no such high profile races in heavily republican areas.

This is a victory for the voters and tax payers of WI. The bill being tied up (wrongly, IMO) in the courts does not change this.

Yet, you still try to claim that voters are against Walker and his "union busting ways"? Shrug.
 
MrVicchio said:
The judge is a stooge, the bill was passed legally, this is how Liberals operate, if they can't get their way they find a "friendly" judge and sue.
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Not only that, Wisconsin's Judge Maryann Sumi has a son, Jake Sinderbrand, who is a political operative and who also happens to be a former lead field manager with the AFL-CIO and data manager for the SEIU State Council. She should have recused herself from the case due to this clear conflict of interest.

Judge Sumi and the Wisconsin Supremes
Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen on Thursday filed a Petition for Supervisory Writ directly to the state Supreme Court over a circuit court judge's temporary blocking of a controversial bill that limits the rights of public employee unions. The suit claims that Dane County Circuit Court Judge Maryann Sumi did not have the constitutional authority to block the publication of the Budget Repair Bill . It then asks the Wisconsin Supreme Court . to immediately take jurisdiction of the case and dismiss it. A Petition for Supervisory Writ is not a direct appeal of any lower court decision, but rather a procedure that starts a new action altogether because the petitioner claims a judge violated his or her constitutional authority
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The later part of this statement needs to be emphasized. Attorney General Van Hollen is not asking the Supreme Court to rule that Judge Sumi's legal reasoning is wrong. He is arguing that neither Dane County District Ismael Ozanne who brought the case or Judge Sumi have any legal say in the matter. Specifically the argument is that under the Wisconsin constitution Judge Sumi has no authority to enjoin the legislature for allegedly failing to follow one of the legislature's own administrative procedures.
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The ruling will be slapped down for so many reasons it isn’t even funny.
 
MrVicchio said:
The judge is a stooge, the bill was passed legally, this is how Liberals operate, if they can't get their way they find a "friendly" judge and sue.
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I'll stick with the rule of law, thanks!
 
Catawba said:
I'll stick with the rule of law, thanks!
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Well good … I'm glad you are sticking with the rule of law, now will you please tell your liberals friends that as well …. and we can get over and past this nonsense of Bush not winning the 2000 election … because the highest court in our country said he did … and since you believe in the rule of law, then you must be in total agreement with the 2000 election results right ?
 
GPS_Flex said:
Yeah, when the rule of law eventually plays out and the legislation stands will you still be saying this?
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Have you heard me saying I plan to take up arms over the Citizen's Unitied ruling?
 
The Barbarian said:
Well good … I'm glad you are sticking with the rule of law, now will you please tell your liberals friends that as well …. and we can get over and past this nonsense of Bush not winning the 2000 election … because the highest court in our country said he did … and since you believe in the rule of law, then you must be in total agreement with the 2000 election results right ?
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The liberals suffered through Bush's two terms as did the rest of America. It was his leadership, or lack thereof, that allowed the Democrats to regain power. Elections are how we change policy in this country. I am willing to wager that Walker will be a one-term Governor.
 
So people who want Obama impeached are extremists and morons (along with racist and other drivle). Yet it's heroic to pitch a fit and recall state senators. Hypocrisy is funny. What I also think is truly sad is the pure outrage and tantrums spoiled adults are throwing over one issue. Now that's extreme.
 
digsbe said:
So people who want Obama impeached are extremists and morons (along with racist and other drivle). Yet it's heroic to pitch a fit and recall state senators. Hypocrisy is funny. What I also think is truly sad is the pure outrage and tantrums spoiled adults are throwing over one issue. Now that's extreme.
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Perhaps if the Germans had raised a ruckus when their union rights were being stripped they would not have had a fascist government foisted upon them by the corporations. Freedom is worth fighting for my young friend.
 
Catawba said:
Perhaps if the Germans had raised a ruckus when their union rights were being stripped they would not have had a fascist government foisted upon them by the corporations. Freedom is worth fighting for my young friend.
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I have nothing wrong with private sector unions, but when the public sector unions are too powerful, sucking tax payer coffers, and giving unwarranted benefits that no one in the private sector would have doing the same job is just wrong. What about the freedoms of taxpayers or their finances? What about the freedom of the employer to not have to pay unsustainable benefits? Regardless, this can't be compared to nazi Germany. Let's not violate Godwin's law.
 
digsbe said:
I have nothing wrong with private sector unions, but when the public sector unions are too powerful, sucking tax payer coffers, and giving unwarranted benefits that no one in the private sector would have doing the same job is just wrong.
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If that were actually the case, I wouldn't support public unions either. But it is not. Public unions have negotiated in good faith with their employers to recieve better benefits in lieu of salary. The fact of the matter is that our teachers, firemen, and policemen are paid too little, not too much, and the lack of union representation is going to hurt the service to the public they perform as you won't be able to attract quality people for less then they can make in the private market.

What about the freedoms of taxpayers or their finances?
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What about them? Do they expect to get public services for less than it would cost them in the private market?

What about the freedom of the employer to not have to pay unsustainable benefits?
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The employer negotiated for higher benefits to keep their salaries lower.

Regardless, this can't be compared to nazi Germany. Let's not violate Godwin's law.
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Okay, ignore history in Germany if it makes you uncomfortable. Unions are the first thing to go in clearing the way for corporate control of government. There can be no right to bargain collectively in a fascist controlled system. Why would you expect workers to happily give up this right?
 
Yes, here we go...we're Nazi's because we don't think Public Sector Unions should be able to "Collectively Bargain" with US.

Tax Payers are their "employers"....
Catawba said:
Perhaps if the Germans had raised a ruckus when their union rights were being stripped they would not have had a fascist government foisted upon them by the corporations. Freedom is worth fighting for my young friend.
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