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Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

Catawba said:
Not a believer in public water systems then? Or our highway system? Or our military system? Or our police system? etc, etc, etc.
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Noise noise noise.

Come back when you have something relevant and address what is said rather then talking points without meaning.
 
MrVicchio said:
Noise noise noise.

Come back when you have something relevant and address what is said rather then talking points without meaning.
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You said
Democracy and Socialist don't go together.
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I just gave you 4 examples where they do. All are provided by individuals for the the benefit of the common good. That is socialism chosen through our Democratic process.
 
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American said:
Taxes laws for one.
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Liberals agee with the majority of Americans, with the progresive tax laws supported Constitutionally for over a half century that taxes proportionally to means. Americans have supported this as the most fair system for over a half Century.
 
GPS_Flex said:
You really ought to study less Venezuelan and Cuban political science and do a little more studying of American political science.

North Korea is a democratic republic, East Germany was a democratic republic, Congo is a democratic republic but the USA is not a democratic republic, it is a constitutional republic.

Constitutional republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Democratic republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the attempted history/political science lesson just the same.
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Thanks for posting Wikipedia articles... If you look at Republic on Wiki and scroll down look what you find "Democratic Republic — Republics where the people elect their representatives and may engage in some forms of popular referendums. Examples include the United States of America."
You do realize you kind of just did prove my point? East Germany claimed to be a democratic republic, hell pretty much every country claims to be a democratic republic, but they really are not all democratic republics at all. Ever heard of a misnomer? Thats pretty much what the countries were...
Let me try to explain this to ya.. :)
A democratic republic is a country with both a republic (what we have) and a democracy (what we have representative democracy). We elect representative to make decisions or laws. A representative democracy is a kind of republic. What distinguishes a republic is that it has an elected government. Representative democracies are, therefor, a kind of republic. "A distinct set of definitions for the word republic evolved in the United States. In common parlance a republic is a state that does not practice direct democracy but rather has a government indirectly controlled by the people. This is known as representative democracy. This understanding of the term was originally developed by James Madison, and notably employed in Federalist Paper No. 10. This meaning was widely adopted early in the history of the United States, including in Noah Webster's dictionary of 1828. It was a novel meaning to the term, representative democracy was not an idea mentioned by Machiavelli and did not exist in the classical republics."
 
MrVicchio said:
Democracy and Socialist don't go together.
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Right conservative macho American man..... :dohPretty ignorant and bold statement right there my friend.. What do you base this off? Do you have any proof?
You do realize you cant just have an economic policy alone (socialism) without having some form of government (democracy/republic) right????
Last time i checked socialism and democracy go hand in hand...
Please come out of your westernized definition of socialism that you learn back in 8th grade...
 
Just to give an idea of how quickly enough signatures can turn into not quite enough...

Petitioners required 1,040 signautres to force a recall election on a WI alderman and submitted 1,607 signatures.

The alderman's council was able to invalidate 575 signatures so that he will not face a recall election.


Witkowiak recall signatures fall short - JSOnline
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Right conservative macho American man..... :dohPretty ignorant and bold statement right there my friend.. What do you base this off? Do you have any proof?
You do realize you cant just have an economic policy alone (socialism) without having some form of government (democracy/republic) right????
Last time i checked socialism and democracy go hand in hand...
Please come out of your westernized definition of socialism that you learn back in 8th grade...
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Like I said once before, you're sig is most amusing. You're a "progressive socialist in favor of democracy" Yet you then say Gov't should fear the people. Do you realize the Irony? I think you do. Socialism requires Centralized control, something not conducive with "democracy". This is why America is a Representative Republic, so the Government is forced to FEAR THE PEOPLE. Doing it your way, the People have to fear the Government. Come back to yus when you get out of the coffee house and freshmen year poli-sci classes.

Let me ask you an honest question, where do you want America to "progress too? Hmmm?
 
Catawba said:
You said

I just gave you 4 examples where they do. All are provided by individuals for the the benefit of the common good. That is socialism chosen through our Democratic process.
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No, you didn't, you repeated talking points you read off the back of a Prius.
 
Catawba said:
Liberals agee with the majority of Americans, with the progresive tax laws supported Constitutionally for over a half century that taxes proportionally to means. Americans have supported this as the most fair system for over a half Century.
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Americans have never had a say in taxes. If they did, we wouldn't have the ****ed up tax system that we do.
 
American said:
Americans have never had a say in taxes. If they did, we wouldn't have the ****ed up tax system that we do.
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So you are against the American form of government?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Democracy is a messy think pal. How did the democrats force the health care law down our throats again? Did they really force it down? Obama campaigned on it for two years!! Walker did not campaign on getting rid of labor rights and collective bargaining rights.. Obamacare was not some surprise legislation like Walkers "budget bill"..
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by locking out and ignoring gop input. by forceing a vote on voters that could not possibly know what was in it. the way they handled this put me in the gop camp for midterms.
 
Catawba said:
Liberals agee with the majority of Americans, with the progresive tax laws supported Constitutionally for over a half century that taxes proportionally to means. Americans have supported this as the most fair system for over a half Century.
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For most of the last Century American's didn't have much information on alternatives, and even today so much as suggesting changing the tax laws to something actually fair to all causes a media firestorm, endless laments about the poor being victimized by the rich blah blah blah...

The Tax system as is is so great we're borrowing so much money our great grand kids are paying the interest on it.
 
MrVicchio said:
Like I said once before, you're sig is most amusing. You're a "progressive socialist in favor of democracy" Yet you then say Gov't should fear the people. Do you realize the Irony? I think you do. Socialism requires Centralized control, something not conducive with "democracy". This is why America is a Representative Republic, so the Government is forced to FEAR THE PEOPLE. Doing it your way, the People have to fear the Government. Come back to yus when you get out of the coffee house and freshmen year poli-sci classes.

Let me ask you an honest question, where do you want America to "progress too? Hmmm?
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Socialsim does not require centralized control... Worker managed economy. Ownership of the enterprise can take various forms of worker co-ops, and planning is done in a democratic manner. That is pretty much socialism in a nut shell, and it is not centralized. The workers direct the economy not the state... Full centralized socialism has proven to fail.
You do realize there are many forms of socialism, right?
What do i want America to "progress too"? More just society, more respect for human rights, more peaceful society, one where you have the right to education, work, healthcare, and housing. One where workers have more say in the economy and decisions that affect them. I want in to progress to democratic socialism...
 
GPS_Flex said:
Elitists? Thugs? Did you say the same thing about Democrats and Obama when they forced the health care law through in similar fashion?
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This would assume they are exactly the same thing. Can you support that they are?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
The US is a democratic republic my friend. Democracies and republics overlap.. Republics are a representative government. How democratic they are depends on their structure and participation. Democracy just means all people have some say in government. [highlight]A representative democracy is a kind of republic. What distinguishes a republic is that it has an elected government. Representative democracies are, therefor, a kind of republic. Self-appointed governments such as monarchies, dictatorships, oligarchies, theocracies and juntas are not republics.[/highlight] We are a representative democracy which is a form of a republic but not a pure democracy...
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If you're going to plaigerize:

William P. Meyers said:
...The specific rules may vary: perhaps everyone must agree, perhaps there must be consensus, perhaps a mere majority is required to make a decision. The other, better known form of democracy is a representative democracy. People elect representative to make decisions or laws. Again, specifics vary greatly.

And, surprise, [highlight]a representative democracy is a kind of republic. What distinguishes a republic is that it has an elected government. Representative democracies are, therefor, a kind of republic. Self-appointed governments such as monarchies, dictatorships, oligarchies, theocracies and juntas are not republics. [/highlight]However, this still allows for a wide spectrum. The classic is the Roman Republic...
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America: Republic or Democracy?

Why not pick someone that's an authority on the topic, instead of some Green Party schmuck who believes the principal aims of the American revolution were to protect slavery and steal land from Indians; and who claims the founders and other "predatory elite" only sought to wrest control from England so they could rule the colonies instead.
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sorry ill put quotes around it next time and start listing my sources from here on out for ya....
How are you going to aruge that a democracy is not a form of a republic this just baffles me...
 
Boo Radley said:
Good as no one is trying to put them together. I do wish I'd see an original scare tactic used.
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you mean other than thedemsocialist, right?
 
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Boo Radley said:
Not sure he is, but I also don't see him as a concern. Do you?
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not in the grand scheme of things..but hey, look at libertatians....they're proof positive that all manners of ideological hybrids and compounds are possible.
 
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TheDemSocialist said:
How are you going to aruge that a democracy is not a form of a republic this just baffles me...
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That's of course wrong - but not I think what you were arguing earlier. Certainly you agree that not all democracies are republics?

I think it's enough to say that our government has elements of both. I would argue that the democratic elements operate at the state and local level (e.g. in deciding a referendum). The federal government is a republic plain and simple. People have no direct say whatsoever in its legislative, executive, or judicial functions. If some people find it more palatible to call it a "representative democracy" because 1/3 of it is elected democratically, then fine -- but the distinction is rhetorical - the government is the same either way (the few rule over the many).
 
3 groups targeting Democrats for recalls to file signatures Thursday - JSOnline

Recall campaigns targeting three Democratic state senators will file signatures on Thursday, their organizers say.

The filings will be the first against Democrats after four recall campaigns against Republicans have filed. The campaigns against GOP senators have benefited from more coordination from state party headquarters and strong volunteer enthusiasm, with two of the efforts filing in half the time they were allotted to collect signatures.

But the new filings mark a change in the political landscape.

The campaigns against Sens. Dave Hansen (D-Green Bay), Jim Holperin (D-Conover) and Robert Wirch (D-Pleasant Prairie) said separately that they'll file enough signatures to force recall elections against each senator.
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Think this is important for republicans for the reason that the unions will have to cough-up some cash to defend these democrat's seats. So, less cash to provide to campaigns hoping to oust the republicans that may have to face recall elections.
 
danarhea said:
4 down and 4 to go, although I believe that only 5 or possibly 6 out of the 8 will end up being recalled. Still, considering the difficulty of recall in Wisconsin, this is a very impressive number - Which goes to show you that, if you are elitist enough to believe that you can do anything you want after being elected, and act like thugs while doing it, you are going to be hammered for it.

Folks, THIS is what Democracy looks like.

Article is here.
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Yep, the Union must have stayed up all night to forge those signatures.

j-mac
 
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