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Thread: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

  1. #191
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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    The left's contention is that Hitler disbanded the unions in Germany prior to WW2. Which means that Walker is the equivalent to Hitler, or some such nonsense.
    That's what I figured, catawba may wish to compare but this not going to change the fact that Wisconsin is broke and going down the road to insolvency. The unions have a chance to survive with Walker but if it goes before a state/federal bankruptcy court then the union will have no say what so ever, this will be the final death nail. Although no matter what happens either for or against the unions, this is all coming to head and the states have to react and it going to be very very painful fore those still on the nipple of the state..oh and the private sector as well.

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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Yes, saving the state approximately 100 million dollars by increasing taxes on business will turn everythign peachy. Just further proof that those on the left have no concept of budgets.
    if Wisconsin has no interest in saving $100 million dollars then they have no fiscal emergency.
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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    We went there because of the injury to their unions?
    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    I am not sure what you are referring to but, I assume you must be referring to WW2. If this is the case we didn't go to war with Germany because their were union busting fascist. .
    Never said we did. Context people!



    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    How did letting the unions be dismantled work out for the people of Germany?
    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Can't speak for the Germans but I can say this, Germany is the one country that is fairing best in the European economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You mean after we went to war to remove the Fascists there that dismantled their unions?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Never said we did. Context people!
    At any rate your example would be inconsistent, just look at that rest of the European economy which is basically bankrupt and stagnant and the governments just about insolvent. Germany I not failing because of the weaker Euro and it also has the largest imports behind China, this has nothing to do with the unions. California. Wisconsin. Illinois, New york and others can be better compared to Greece which this country's government has a heavy hand in entitlements and as a result has gone under water.

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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    if Wisconsin has no interest in saving $100 million dollars then they have no fiscal emergency.
    I, and most conservatives, believe there is a benefit to tax cuts in attracting businesses. I have seen that benefit, as a couple of companies have already relocated from N. illinois to WI.

    But the overall point is that reversing 140 million in business relocation tax cuts is not going to help a 3.6 billion dollar deficit. PSU employees make up 20% percent of total WI spending or 60% of the state's operations budget. The tax cuts, infinitesimally less.
    Last edited by buck; 04-26-11 at 10:15 AM.

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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I, and most conservatives, believe there is a benefit to tax cuts in attracting businesses. I have seen that benefit, as a couple of companies have already relocated from N. illinois to WI.

    But the overall point is that reversing 140 million in business relocation tax cuts is not going to help a 3.6 billion dollar deficit. PSU employees make up 20% percent of total WI spending or 60% of the state's operations budget. The tax cuts, infinitesimally less.
    Such evidence as you present is too subjective. You likely don't know all the factors involved. Present any study that actually, and objectively shows tax cuts produce jobs.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Such evidence as you present is too subjective.
    True. Very subjective. What is not subjective is the alleged cost of the tax cuts in comparison to state spending and WI's deficit.
    Last edited by buck; 04-26-11 at 12:01 PM.

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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    True. Very subjective.
    So, do you have anything else? Let me give you some of what I have;

    Consider the $100 billion in personal tax rebates that were issued as part of a broader economic stimulus effort in 2008. Only about one-third of the total amount was spent. A University of Michigan study in December 2008 concluded that these rebates provided “little ‘bang for the buck’ as economic stimulus.”

    Similarly, a series of tax cuts in 2003 fell far short of targeted job growth. The Bush administration claimed the tax cuts would create 1.4 million jobs, in addition to some 4.1 million jobs expected to be generated over an 18-month period. But EPI tracked the initiative and found that not only did the additional 1.4 million jobs not appear, but the 4.1 million jobs that had been expected without the tax cuts never materialized either. By the end, the economy only saw an additional 2.4 million jobs added to the economy.

    Tax cuts won’t create jobs

    So what did John Q. Taxpayer get for all that tax cutting? Certainly not jobs, but instead a huge deficit bill now coming due. Nonetheless, the debates in Washington now still focus on more tax cuts in 2011. So long as that's the focus, the U.S. unemployment situation will continue to stagnate or worsen.

    http://uslaboragainstwar.org/downloa...obs.Rasmus.pdf

    Tax cuts may comfort the comfortable, to quote consultant Robert Shrum, but there’s not a convincing case that they result in new jobs.

    Extending the Bush Tax Cuts: Would They Create More Jobs? Or Just Comfort The Comfortable? - CBS MoneyWatch.com

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So, do you have anything else? Let me give you some of what I have;

    Consider the $100 billion in personal tax rebates that were issued as part of a broader economic stimulus effort in 2008. Only about one-third of the total amount was spent. A University of Michigan study in December 2008 concluded that these rebates provided “little ‘bang for the buck’ as economic stimulus.”

    Similarly, a series of tax cuts in 2003 fell far short of targeted job growth. The Bush administration claimed the tax cuts would create 1.4 million jobs, in addition to some 4.1 million jobs expected to be generated over an 18-month period. But EPI tracked the initiative and found that not only did the additional 1.4 million jobs not appear, but the 4.1 million jobs that had been expected without the tax cuts never materialized either. By the end, the economy only saw an additional 2.4 million jobs added to the economy.

    Tax cuts won’t create jobs

    So what did John Q. Taxpayer get for all that tax cutting? Certainly not jobs, but instead a huge deficit bill now coming due. Nonetheless, the debates in Washington now still focus on more tax cuts in 2011. So long as that's the focus, the U.S. unemployment situation will continue to stagnate or worsen.

    http://uslaboragainstwar.org/downloa...obs.Rasmus.pdf

    Tax cuts may comfort the comfortable, to quote consultant Robert Shrum, but there’s not a convincing case that they result in new jobs.

    Extending the Bush Tax Cuts: Would They Create More Jobs? Or Just Comfort The Comfortable? - CBS MoneyWatch.com
    I'm not going to get into this conversation again. Little for either of us to gain.

    However, if you want to talk about how the 140 million dollars in tax cuts in WI created a 3.8 billion dollar deficit, or how getting rid of the small business tax breaks but not doing anything about the PSU employee spending in WI which contributed large amounts to their deficit I am more then willing to have that discussion.

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    Re: Petition to recall Wisconsin GOP Sen. Sheila Harsdorf to be filed Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I'm not going to get into this conversation again. Little for either of us to gain.

    However, if you want to talk about how the 140 million dollars in tax cuts in WI created a 3.8 billion dollar deficit, or how getting rid of the small business tax breaks but not doing anything about the PSU employee spending in WI which contributed large amounts to their deficit I am more then willing to have that discussion.
    It's important that we not base our opinions on faulty assumptions. Assuming that tax cuts lead to jobs is not supported by studies, and it is important to recognize this.

    As for Wisconsin, that too is more complicated than blaming either the unions or tax cuts. If you busted the union completely, did away with all their benefits, you would not save Wisconsin. Like the federal government, you need a combination of efforts, and the burden should not be placed on the least capable alone.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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