Attack on 'blasphemous' art work fires debate on role of religion in France

Art is objective.

GPS_Flex said:

Following your logic, someone could film the rape and murder of your entire family and call it art, no?

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It would all depend on how it is filmed, the intended message, the target audience, etc. Right now we're just dealing with your idea in a vacuum and that's not really addressing something that's tangible and we can talk about, like the Piss Christ.

I see where you are trying to go with it, but I don't think I can follow you there because it's too hypothetical.

jamesrage said:

France is one of those Eurotrash countries with anti-free speech laws where they can fine or jail a preacher for saying homosexuality is a sin or fine and or jail someone for offending a Muslim but someone can put a Rosary cross in a jar of piss and call it art and it is not considered hate speech in that country? If this man had taken a plastic figurine of Mohamed and put it in a jar of piss I somehow doubt France would let him hold an exhibit of it and would toss his ass in jail.

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You and several others on this forum have strong delusions about what you think France is, and you are very stubbornly attached to a narrative about that country you've been feeding your own minds over and over.

I don't know the full scope of the religious situation in France, as it is not a country I have deep associations with. I've been there a couple of times - I did not have the experience of racial or religious tension in the areas I visited. I went to a few major art galleries and there were many challenging works to experience and process. Honestly, Piss Christ is just par for the course. The artist made something that became particularly sensationalized, and his work stood out. There are others around that make statements just as potentially shocking. Right now the news is focused on this one.

We are far removed from Europe, being Americans. And "Europe" is a very nebulous idea because it is many different kinds of thinking packed into a small geography, just as France itself is "one country" but has many different perspectives packed into one. Is America one place, with one culture? I don't think so, do you?

I am not at all convinced that the tide has turned against Christianity in France. The fact that there are actual devout religious people partaking in this debate and representing many sides shows that it's not just a matter of religion vs. anti-religion.

Am I the only one who wants to take that "art", and place it in Marcel Duhhamp's most famous work from 1917?

jamesrage said:

Its because many Christians know that there is a double standard. If this was a piss Koran or a Piss Mohamed there is no way in hell this would have been on display in a museum in France and he would have been arrested and or fined for violating hate speech laws. Serrano probably wouldn't have even been allowed to step foot in France.

I think if you take anything a large group of people consider sacred and drop in a jar of piss many people are going to be offended regardless of a what a so called artist claims his interpretation is.

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Anybody can claim to be an artist. I donot see the artistic value in putting a crucifix in piss. What talent did it take? Did he mold the crucifix out of plastic, and then drink or eat something that would change the color of his urine? I don't see the talent. Any museum that would allow this to be called "art" isn't much of a museum.

This guy could take a dump, put a candle in it, and voile, art. Complete nonsense.

The guys making a statement, not creating art. He's bogus as an artiste.

Dr_Patrick said:

Not necessarily. I didn't say I would one way or the other. However, I interpret "Piss Christ" the way I do because I'm far more aware of Christianity and what many have done to disparage Jesus than I am about Islam and what people have done to disparage Mohammad. I, unlike many people on this forum, am not going to pretend to know enough about Islam to make harsh judgments about it. I interpret "Piss Christ" the way I want to, and the way that the artist himself has admitted to doing so. If you choose to interpret it differently, that's your perogative.

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Well I don't know that much about Christianity or Islam. I am familiar with piss and ****. I interpret both to be vile and disgusting if I get any on me. Each to their own fetishs I guess.

Marilyn Monroe said:

Anybody can claim to be an artist. I donot see the artistic value in putting a crucifix in piss. What talent did it take? Did he mold the crucifix out of plastic, and then drink or eat something that would change the color of his urine? I don't see the talent. Any museum that would allow this to be called "art" isn't much of a museum.

This guy could take a dump, put a candle in it, and voile, art. Complete nonsense.

The guys making a statement, not creating art. He's bogus as an artiste.

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You do realize that art extends past simply making sculptures and actually painting things, right? Have you ever heard of found objects? Art covers a wide range of things.

That being said, you can call it what you want and have whatever interpretation that you want. That is what it is there for.

Barbbtx said:

Well I don't know that much about Christianity or Islam. I am familiar with piss and ****. I interpret both to be vile and disgusting if I get any on me. Each to their own fetishs I guess.

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What would you think of Piss Christ if you hadn't been made aware that it was piss that the crucifix was in? All by itself it's actually quite a beautiful photo, is it not?