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Thread: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    No, that is minarchism. You can be a libertarian and not embrace minarchism. Please learn your political philosophies before you lecture who can and cannot belong to a certain ideology.



    Wow, since you are so clearly incapable of basic reading comprehension, here again is what I posted.



    I'm a centrist libertarian, which means I hold very moderate economic views and view the role of government pragmatically as opposed to idealistically. Corporations on the other hand have long sabotaged the government for the purpose of growing ever larger and limiting possible competition. That is in direct opposition to free market principles and warrants "flaming".
    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    There are many types of libertarians.
    You can even have left libertarians who oppose private property rights in general. Libertarianism is one of the most wide-ranging political philosophies.
    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Yes.

    I would say I'm kinda left libertarian, as my ideology has no common representation. The result of forming much of it earlier than most and THEN coming in contact with existing ideologies.

    But I would qualify it as not opposing private property rights in theory at all, but having issues with how they translate into practice sometimes. If that makes sense.

    I actually thought I had found "my" ideology when I encountered libertarianism.

    It was the laissez-faire thing that refused to resolve for me.

    I've just never seen the issue of the tendency of capitalism to not only create wealth, but to concentrate weath as well, addressed to my satisfaction.

    No system made by man is perfect that I have encountered.

    Our Constitutional system comes closer IMHO than anything prior to addressing the issue of humans and govt., but the Founders knew that time and wisdom would require it to evolve, so designed it to allow this "correction" of their vision.

    No economic philosophy was set forth in the Constitution, as I feel was appropriate.

    And capitalism is good at doing what it does.

    But it is a system devised by man, and is therefore imperfect.

    It was preceded by earlier ideas and will inevitably be followed with something that better suits some future set of conditions.

    I am rarely able to even get anyone to discuss my concerns with capitalism, which are actually more with the details of how its shortcomings might be addressed than a rejection of it on its face.

    The level of discussion on this forum has improved markedly recently. I really enjoy it.

    And I really appreciate those who have opinions they have clearly formed themselves. As this means they think ABOUT what they're talking about, and not just HOW to prove someone else wrong.

    That I always agree with!

    I tend to test my conclusions against others'. To test them. Partisan, ideological bickering doesn't help me learn.

    It actually tends to re-enforce my original belief when someone insists on answering a question I'm not asking.

    Thanks for the thoughtful post, in other words.
    Platform | Libertarian Party

    I will admit that I’m not an expert on political parties but the Libertarian Party platform doesn’t hold the same principles that some of you self proclaimed libertarians do. I don’t see how you can oppose private property rights and/or call for more government regulations and call yourself a libertarian.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  2. #362
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Platform | Libertarian Party

    I will admit that I’m not an expert on political parties but the Libertarian Party platform doesn’t hold the same principles that some of you self proclaimed libertarians do. I don’t see how you can oppose private property rights and/or call for more government regulations and call yourself a libertarian.
    They can't. Lol, Got to love these people. You will love the socialist Libertarians around here somewhere. Their amount of nonsense is outstanding!
    Last edited by Henrin; 04-18-11 at 06:22 PM.

  3. #363
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Platform | Libertarian Party

    I will admit that I’m not an expert on political parties but the Libertarian Party platform doesn’t hold the same principles that some of you self proclaimed libertarians do. I don’t see how you can oppose private property rights and/or call for more government regulations and call yourself a libertarian.
    Someday you'll realize that not every libertarian's views are supported by the LP. They are a spectrum, just like every other philosophy.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  4. #364
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Look at the pretty chart.

    The fear mongering may work on you but it doesn't work on me. Are things great? No. But they are by no means bad or even close to as bad as they have been in the past. People are not starving and dying in the streets. The tax rate right now is as low as it has ever been. Maybe some people need to take their heads out of their asses and actually research how bad the economic conditions actually are instead of listening to pundits screaming on radio and television shows how bad things are.

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    You might be hypnotized by “pretty chart[s]” but I am educated enough and informed enough to know that they are meaningless without an explanation of the methods used to create it.

    Maybe you are among the people who need to take their heads out of their asses and do some research of your own. If you can answer this simple question, I will bow down before you and worship your “non-head in ass highness” but if you can’t, you are just another guy with analcraniumosis.

    How does your “pretty chart” incorporate public debt and intragovernmental holdings? If you don’t know the answer to this, you need to stop staring at pretty little charts and educate yourself a little.
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Debt-to-GDP ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If you don't even know the simplest measures of economic health, then I really can't help you.
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post


    That was a long winded way of saying that you don't like the graph so you are going to protest the numbers behind it without actually knowing what they are. Most calculations place the debt as percentage of GDP at below 60%. Not to mention our debt is rated AAA which means it is among the best investments in the world. So apparently the people who rate debt and the people who buy debt are pretty confident in our debt as percentage of GDP, and you, without providing any numbers of your own, are not, simply because it doesn't spell the gloom and doom that you have been brainwashed to believe we are currently facing. Hm, should I believe you or the market? The only way we would have any problem is if the GOP stands in the way of raising the debt ceiling, but they would have to be suicidal to try to pull such a stunt.
    Anyone with the ability to perform basic reasoning can see that I asked you to explain the values behind your chart and you failed.

    I even offered to bow down and worship you if you could tell me how your chart incorporated “public debt and intragovernmental holdings” but you obviously don’t have a clue what those big words mean and have no idea why they are relevant so I might as well be arguing quantum physics with a 3rd grader because you don’t seem capable of an intelligent discussion of the issue.
    Last edited by GPS_Flex; 04-18-11 at 06:32 PM.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Someday you'll realize that not every libertarian's views are supported by the LP. They are a spectrum, just like every other philosophy.
    You can call yourself whatever you want. It doesn’t mean you are a libertarian though just because you say you are. That’s the simple fact jack.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    You can call yourself whatever you want. It doesn’t mean you are a libertarian though just because you say you are. That’s the simple fact jack.
    And where exactly would you put me?
    I'm a military non-interventionist who thinks we can easily scale back defense spending to a fifth of what it is now.
    I'm pro-free trade and think we shouldn't have any tariffs.
    I think government shouldn't be involved on any social issue. That means for things like gay marriage, either give other people the same privilege or call everything sanctioned by the government a civil union.
    I don't think we should have anything like Social Security/Medicare. For those who really want some security, give them an optional lockbox in a government account where they can put a certain % of their income. Don't hold the hand of those who don't need it.
    I think we should retain some aspects of Medicaid. There's some people in our society who can't take care of themselves and in a well-developed society, we can easily care for them.
    I don't believe in corporatism or LLCs at all.
    I think some anti-trust legislation is necessary. Most of the issues of consumers getting hurt are removed when you take away the corporate shield, though.
    I would be in favor of spending on things like alternative energy and other scientific research. Likewise, most of the need for this is removed when the corporate shield is gone. When you pollute someone's air in their backyard or their local river and someone can actually sue you for it now, companies will invest in these things themselves.

    Most of the things I support I think would easily identify me as a libertarian. Having said that, I disagree pretty strongly with most "libertarians" in congress now.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post


    That was a long winded way of saying that you don't like the graph so you are going to protest the numbers behind it without actually knowing what they are. Most calculations place the debt as percentage of GDP at below 60%. Not to mention our debt is rated AAA which means it is among the best investments in the world. So apparently the people who rate debt and the people who buy debt are pretty confident in our debt as percentage of GDP, and you, without providing any numbers of your own, are not, simply because it doesn't spell the gloom and doom that you have been brainwashed to believe we are currently facing. Hm, should I believe you or the market? The only way we would have any problem is if the GOP stands in the way of raising the debt ceiling, but they would have to be suicidal to try to pull such a stunt.
    Pretty judgemental responsenot sure the answer is as black and white(almost nothing is) as you presume. Federal debt to outside parties is in fact about 60% of GDP. However this does not include interagency debt. The biggest piece of this are the treasuries that the social security fund holds. This brings the total to about 100%. Let's remeber the discussion about the debt ceiling. The current ceiling is about $14.3 trillion. This is federal debt only. Adding state and local debt the percent rises to about 125% of GDP.

    You pick an interesting day for the above post. As just this morning S&P put U.S. debt of negative credit watch. Saying if the deficit situation shows little sign of getting fixed by 2013 then we should expect a downgrade.

    So put aside this partisan hackery as this is a problem everyone on both sides of the aisle says needs to be addressed.

  8. #368
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    And where exactly would you put me?
    I'm a military non-interventionist who thinks we can easily scale back defense spending to a fifth of what it is now.
    I'm pro-free trade and think we shouldn't have any tariffs.
    I think government shouldn't be involved on any social issue. That means for things like gay marriage, either give other people the same privilege or call everything sanctioned by the government a civil union.
    I don't think we should have anything like Social Security/Medicare. For those who really want some security, give them an optional lockbox in a government account where they can put a certain % of their income. Don't hold the hand of those who don't need it.
    I think we should retain some aspects of Medicaid. There's some people in our society who can't take care of themselves and in a well-developed society, we can easily care for them.
    I don't believe in corporatism or LLCs at all.
    I think some anti-trust legislation is necessary. Most of the issues of consumers getting hurt are removed when you take away the corporate shield, though.
    I would be in favor of spending on things like alternative energy and other scientific research. Likewise, most of the need for this is removed when the corporate shield is gone. When you pollute someone's air in their backyard or their local river and someone can actually sue you for it now, companies will invest in these things themselves.

    Most of the things I support I think would easily identify me as a libertarian. Having said that, I disagree pretty strongly with most "libertarians" in congress now.
    I wouldn’t try to place you. If you strongly disagree with the Libertarian Party though I don’t see why you would want to call yourself a Libertarian.

    I strongly disagree with all of the parties so I register to vote as “unaffiliated”. I don’t get to vote in any primaries but that doesn’t bother me. It’s just one less time I have to plug my nose and vote for the least deplorable candidate on the ballot.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

  9. #369
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Pretty judgemental responsenot sure the answer is as black and white(almost nothing is) as you presume. Federal debt to outside parties is in fact about 60% of GDP. However this does not include interagency debt. The biggest piece of this are the treasuries that the social security fund holds. This brings the total to about 100%. Let's remeber the discussion about the debt ceiling. The current ceiling is about $14.3 trillion. This is federal debt only. Adding state and local debt the percent rises to about 125% of GDP.

    You pick an interesting day for the above post. As just this morning S&P put U.S. debt of negative credit watch. Saying if the deficit situation shows little sign of getting fixed by 2013 then we should expect a downgrade.

    So put aside this partisan hackery as this is a problem everyone on both sides of the aisle says needs to be addressed.
    Finally an intelligent response. Thank you washunut.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I wouldn’t try to place you. If you strongly disagree with the Libertarian Party though I don’t see why you would want to call yourself a Libertarian.

    I strongly disagree with all of the parties so I register to vote as “unaffiliated”. I don’t get to vote in any primaries but that doesn’t bother me. It’s just one less time I have to plug my nose and vote for the least deplorable candidate on the ballot.
    Because Libertarian for me isn't a party affiliation, but a philosophical one. Notice that other leans here are not classified as "Republican" or "Democrat", but rather "conservative" and "liberal" (also, foreign folks).
    You can be a conservative and disagree with republicans, just like you can be a libertarian and disagree with the libertarian party.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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