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Thread: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

  1. #161
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Provide a link to your $500 billion cut in benefits claim please then.
    I did not say "cut in benefits", I said 500 billion in "cuts to Medicare."

    This says 455 billion, other places have said 500 bil and yet another said 540 bil.
    I'll go with the low ball, to be on the safe side.

    Q+A: How does healthcare overhaul affect Medicare? | Reuters
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 04-17-11 at 02:46 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  2. #162
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its obvious why the cuts to the countries safety nets are being proposed, to attempt to make the poor and the middle class pay for the debt created by the wars and tax cuts for the wealthy.
    the nets are insolvent

    there's not enough money in the class that is the enemy to tax the net to whole

    sorry

    from athens to sacramento, there's no stopping it---massive budget reform, as unavoidable as physics

    ask andrew cuomo

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  3. #163
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    ALL funding of unconstitutional programs is debt that must be repaid eventually.
    That does not logically make sense. Funding done through regular taxes is not debt. Nor must it be repaid.

    Furthermore, constitutional spending can be easily (and IS!) financed by debt.

    When considering the national debt, it's instructive to know that under Clinton the ten trillion dollar (10^10!!!!) national debt was easily seen to be the sum of the unconstitutional expenditures on Social Security, Welfare, and other programs. It did not include the unconstitutional spending on education and other federal programs lacking constitutional basis.
    What you define as Constitutional is highly questionable. You seem to be suffering from the same definitional problem as Turtledude. Social Security is not unconstitutional, nor is welfare. NASA is unconstitutional. Non-Constitutional spending makes up a pretty small percent of the total spending.

    Boy, this is retarded.
    See above. I don't define Constitutional as anything I like.

    You people can't seem to figure out that mature adults, especially a mature adult trying to get the nation into recovery from the Disaster Known as Carter AND trying to secure victory against the Evil Empire, could not veto omnibus spending bills that would have crashed the economy if not passed.
    And yet you have the gall NOT to blame Reagan despite saying just that?

    And your refusal to blame those people comes from no other source than your own ignorant partisan loyalties to ideological principles that are the antithesis of the Constitutional principles that made this nation a success.
    Wow. Apparently me blaming everyone suddenly doesn't apply here because I attacked Reagan once. Interesting how partisan you got so fast. By the way, how is illegally funding terrorists constitutional? Let's see just how much of a giant flaming hypocrite you really are. I'm a partisan. That's hilarious.

    I guessed you missed me bashing Bush on his SOCIALIST programs. Apparently that makes me a Democrat? Imagine that. So much for you being worthy of a debate partner.

    What's really retarded is that the Mayor is obligated to give this lecture to so many silly people and no matter how often the Mayor corrects them, there's always another ignorant person that will refuse to learn and will continue to post his ignorance.
    What's amazing is the amount of hypocrisy and arrogance you have. Except without the smarts.

    What's extremely dishonest to pretend Tip O'Neill's role in busting the budget was irrelevant, as is noting that the budget busting items were the unconstitutional items the Democrats expanded.
    And where did I do that? Oh wait. I didn't.

    Also, note the vast tissue of lies propounded in the 1980's, the 3 million homeless bums that were somehow Reagan's fault, who magically vanished when the felonious perjeror was elected president. Note the scorn of the left-wing dominated media over Reagan's Space Defense Initiative. Note the continued lies about the alleged "mistakes of the past" when, rather than mistakes, Reagan's supply side economics reversed Carter's stagflation and generated 22 million jobs by the time Reagan left office.
    Supply side economics? Apparently spending huge amounts of money (debt financed) that is doesn't have any impact? Its amusing how you blame Democrats for everything bad but credit just Republicans for good things. Tell me, does government spending increase demand?

    Looks like we got another partisan hack here.

    Because Obama believes allowing the people who earn their money to keep their money is a "mistake"
    So much so he pushed tax cuts and credits for people. I guess Obama hates people keeping their money he pushed legislation to increase the amount they keep? Btw, I'm laughing at you right now.

    Hyperbole much?

    Obama is seeing an inflationary surge and an economy stalling in preparation for a second recession, just when he's dragged the nation into a third war without getting us out of either of the other two.
    The inflationary surge has little to do with anything he did. In fact you can blame most of it on natural disasters and India and China's economic boom. How that is Obama's fault, you'll find something. Partisan hacks always do. Even if it makes no sense at all.

    As for Libya, I take it you thought the Sebrenica massacres were okay?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #164
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I did not say "cut in benefits", I said 500 billion in "cuts to Medicare."

    This says 455 billion, other places have said 500 bil and yet another said 540 bil.
    I'll go with the low ball, to be on the safe side.

    Q+A: How does healthcare overhaul affect Medicare? | Reuters
    You asked why the Dems were not upset with cutting wasteful medicare/medicade spending?

    Its right there in the link you just posted:

    "WILL THE LEGISLATION CUT MEDICARE BENEFITS?

    There are no cuts to the traditional Medicare benefit. The lion's share of spending cuts are in Medicare Advantage -- a program that uses private firms such as Humana and UnitedHealth Group to deliver Medicare benefits."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #165
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If that is not enough humble pie for you and Turtle to dine on jointly
    too personal, it's demeaning

    sounds like:

    "When Paul Ryan says his priority is to make sure, he's just being America's accountant ... This is the same guy that voted for two wars that were unpaid for, voted for the Bush tax cuts that were unpaid for, voted for the prescription drug bill that cost as much as my health care bill -- but wasn't paid for," Mr. Obama told his supporters. "So it's not on the level."
    Obama: GOP tried to "sneak" agenda into budget - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

    solutions, anyone?

    leadership?

  6. #166
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You asked why the Dems were not upset with cutting wasteful medicare/medicade spending?

    Its right there in the link you just posted:

    "WILL THE LEGISLATION CUT MEDICARE BENEFITS?

    There are no cuts to the traditional Medicare benefit. The lion's share of spending cuts are in Medicare Advantage -- a program that uses private firms such as Humana and UnitedHealth Group to deliver Medicare benefits."
    So what?
    If those programs reduce their services, Medicare recipients will get less benefits.
    Advantage programs are gap fillers in Medicare.

    It essentially translates into a benefit cut.
    Where was the outrage?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #167
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Say what? How does existing law define any compliance with the definition of fair? Everyone's definition of fair varies. Is it fair that the rich pay more because they earn more? It is fair that the rich pay more because they own vast majority of assets in this country? It is fair that everyone pays the same amount? The problem with people like Turtle is that they define fair as they please and do not stick to that definition. I have no respect for people who unilaterally change their definitions based on how badly they are losing an argument.



    That shouldn't be a problem as the COTUS doesn't cover that. Furthermore, taxation in excess of spending isn't necessarily a bad idea. For instance, states do this all of the time. They deposit the surplus into rainy day funds which generate income which can be used for disaster, stimulus or budget balancing. IMO, building a surplus is far preferable then deficit spending. I'd rather have the fed tax more, build a surplus fund and use that surplus fund for stimulus spending during recessions then borrow money. At least with that method we stay in the black. As Japan shows us, bad stuff happens. Going in to debt to fix that is not preferable when you can build up a safety fund during good times. What I vastly dislike about the Tea Party is that they don't seem to understand this .



    The rich also own the greatest portion of asset.



    That does not logically follow.



    Actually it's both.



    Come again? 50% don't pay federal taxes? You got this where? Last I checked, payroll taxes are federal taxes. And only around 45% of the country is not working. Actually 10% of the population is carrying 55% of the burden.

    Congressional Budget Office - Data on the Distribution of Federal Taxes and Household Income

    As for no "rational" definition, well that is your opinion.

    Take this for example: The economy is basically a machine to generate material wealth. The economy is kept going by taxes that support the economy and regulate it so that it functions properly. Now, who should pay the majority of taxes in such a system? Those who own very few of the total wealth or those who own the majority of the wealth?

    So much for your "no rational definition of fair is going to allow this."



    Which is nothing more than speculation.



    Taxation =/= theft.



    That depends how you look at things. See my earlier example.

    If you keep up the notion that taxation = theft, you are not worth talking you.
    I want no part of the nonsense going back and forth but feel compelled to correct what should be an obvious error in the above. Payroll taxes are materially different than Individual Federla Taxes. My sense is that everyone really knows this, but for whatever reason likes to conflate the two.

    What makes up payroll taxes. Social security which should be viewed as a retirement fund, medicare which is also to pay medical exenses for the retired, unemployment Insurance, which is just what it says, insurance to people pay into in the event they find themselves out of work. None of this money should be considered to cover anything but these items. Years ago, the government addedthis stuff into what is called the unified budget. largely because these payroll taxes were running large surpluses and covered up some of our deficit spending.

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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It shows that a majority of BOTH parties voted to start the jewel of the New Deal programs that you rail against.
    jewel of the new deal---very good

    but if the jewels are so valuable why are they in such dire need of fixing

    Fiscal Commission Co-Chairs Simpson And Bowles Release Eye-Popping Recommendations | TPMDC

  9. #169
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    So what?
    If those programs reduce their services, Medicare recipients will get less benefits.
    Advantage programs are gap fillers in Medicare.

    It essentially translates into a benefit cut.

    Read your own article and other sources on the subject. They do not cut benefits. They eliminate the costs of insurance company large profit from the equation. Advantage care is administered much more cheaply through M/M than through private companies. That is where the savings without benefit cuts comes about.

    Why are you opposed to that?
    Last edited by Catawba; 04-17-11 at 02:59 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #170
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    Re: House passes huge GOP budget cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I want no part of the nonsense going back and forth but feel compelled to correct what should be an obvious error in the above. Payroll taxes are materially different than Individual Federla Taxes. My sense is that everyone really knows this, but for whatever reason likes to conflate the two.
    True, they are different. But in the context of total taxes paid, they are one and the same. Furthermore, in the context of the budget where it matters, Payroll taxes fund the largest expenditures within the budget, and the largest expenditures are the biggest drivers of the deficit and future deficits. To ignore payroll taxes, social security and medicare in the context of taxes and budget cuts is massively dishonest.

    What makes up payroll taxes. Social security which should be viewed as a retirement fund, medicare which is also to pay medical exenses for the retired, unemployment Insurance, which is just what it says, insurance to people pay into in the event they find themselves out of work. None of this money should be considered to cover anything but these items. Years ago, the government addedthis stuff into what is called the unified budget. largely because these payroll taxes were running large surpluses and covered up some of our deficit spending.
    Hence partially why a reasonable, honest person cannot discuss the topic without them.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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