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Thread: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    It will cause something not to be taught. It's not as if classes now have periods of thumb-twiddling because there's nothing important to learn.
    You're wrong, important historical events should not be left out. And there are historical events that involve the LGBT movement.
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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    You're wrong, important historical events should not be left out. And there are historical events that involve the LGBT movement.
    The gay rights fight is an important battle, and begrudgingly I accept its historical value. Its impact is still unknown to American society so maybe 20, 30 years it might mean more. But without sounding offensive, I really don't see how someone's sexuality matters when discussing accomplishments, or impact on our society as a whole? Could you point out the educational value of it for me?


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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    You're wrong, important historical events should not be left out. And there are historical events that involve the LGBT movement.
    Important events should be taught, and in any case where sexuality plays a role then it should be mentioned. And while making people look bad for their sexuality is wrong, saying a bad thing about a gay person where they are clearly to blame for something, well then go ahead and blame them.

    For the most part, there's no need to bring sexuality into it. History needs to be taught and taught well. Where that history is "gay" then that's what it is.

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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    The gay rights fight is an important battle, and begrudgingly I accept its historical value. Its impact is still unknown to American society so maybe 20, 30 years it might mean more. But without sounding offensive, I really don't see how someone's sexuality matters when discussing accomplishments, or impact on our society as a whole? Could you point out the educational value of it for me?


    Tim-
    I agree with you... unless it does have some value. Discussing Harvey Milk, for example. His sexuality would have value in the discussion. Considering the incident concerned gay rights, gun rights, legal issues, etc..., if discussed in a history class, Milk's sexuality would be needed to be introduced. But notice... his sexuality is an important component to the entire issue. Here's an alternate example. On September 22, 1975, Sara Jane Moore attempted to assassinate President Ford. Marine Oliver Sipple grabbed Moore's arm, just as she fired, causing the shot to miss. Sipple was gay. His sexuality is irrelevant in context to the historical value of discussing the assassination attempt. The thing to look for is this: is it key or is it ancillary?
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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I agree with you... unless it does have some value. Discussing Harvey Milk, for example. His sexuality would have value in the discussion. Considering the incident concerned gay rights, gun rights, legal issues, etc..., if discussed in a history class, Milk's sexuality would be needed to be introduced. But notice... his sexuality is an important component to the entire issue. Here's an alternate example. On September 22, 1975, Sara Jane Moore attempted to assassinate President Ford. Marine Oliver Sipple grabbed Moore's arm, just as she fired, causing the shot to miss. Sipple was gay. His sexuality is irrelevant in context to the historical value of discussing the assassination attempt. The thing to look for is this: is it key or is it ancillary?
    I agree, it WAS historically relevant to the modern gay rights debate.. So a discussion on gay rights would need to include Harvey Milk as an early activist. Gay rights is a "current, and past" affair. Current affairs is important, as is history, and they have educational value. How much time I would spend on it I suppose is a valid question as well. Gay rights, I dunno, maybe in college as an elective course, but mandated, as a section of American history having a big impact? As Taylor suggests, the day is only so long. I just don't see why it should displace more important issues, and issues that would deliver the same educational impact (Lesson) as say sufferage, slavery, Native American history? I think these things had more impact on the greater number of people than gay rights ever will.. When time is limited, curriculums should prioritize, and at the K-12 educational level, it just doesn't make the cut for me?


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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    If we are going to teach history, we need to teach things that are important. You want to understand more about gay history? Take a class on it in college. Gay civil rights will be discussed in high school, as will gay marriage. Other smaller issues, just to pander to a group? Should not happen... nor should it happen to ANY group.
    I don't know how representative my 9th grade American History class was, but if memory serves, "Current Events" was the last chapter in a long textbook. We barely covered anything in detail, having run out of time and it being the end of the school year, but even if we had kept to the schedule, the chapter covered everything since WWII - the rise of communism, wars in korea and vietnam, the bay of pigs, the kennedy assassination, reagan, thespace race, challenger, aids, etc. That's a TON of stuff all given short schriff and I don't see how gay marriage fits, or if so, how it could be anything more than a one or two sentence blurb in a paragraph on legislative trends (which is slightly less than the paragraph we may have received on the formation of Israel).

    Needless to say, the only kids who knew any post WWII history were those that took the elective class on current events (where this topic makes much more sense), which meant that you missed psychology, anthropology, geography, or one of the other electives.

    Perhaps it will be a more important topic in history 20 years from now, but I just don't see it in 2010. I think one could argue that we're still living or have yet to live what may be the most significant history.
    Last edited by Taylor; 04-15-11 at 11:41 PM. Reason: fix quote

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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I don't know how representative my 9th grade American History class was, but if memory serves, "Current Events" was the last chapter in a long textbook. We barely covered anything in detail, having run out of time and it being the end of the school year, but even if we had kept to the schedule, the chapter covered everything since WWII - the rise of communism, wars in korea and vietnam, the bay of pigs, the kennedy assassination, reagan, thespace race, challenger, aids, etc. That's a TON of stuff all given short schriff and I don't see how gay marriage fits, or if so, how it could be anything more than a one or two sentence blurb in a paragraph on legislative trends (which is slightly less than the paragraph we may have received on the formation of Israel).

    Needless to say, the only kids who knew any post WWII history were those that took the elective class on current events (where this topic makes much more sense), which meant that you missed psychology, anthropology, geography, or one of the other electives.

    Perhaps it will be a more important topic in history 20 years from now, but I just don't see it in 2010. I think one could argue that we're still living or have yet to live what may be the most significant history.
    Nowadays, from what I hear from clients I work with, current affairs is more prominent in history classes. I do think that gay marriage would be something to be discussed... but not as key as Libya, the budget, and many other things. It has a place, but depending on what is occuring at the time, a place that would be proportional to other things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    You're wrong, important historical events should not be left out. And there are historical events that involve the LGBT movement.
    They HAVE to be left out. You can't possibly cover everything in a one year history class.

    What would you say are the top three important historical events to date involving the LGBT movement?

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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Nowadays, from what I hear from clients I work with, current affairs is more prominent in history classes. I do think that gay marriage would be something to be discussed... but not as key as Libya, the budget, and many other things. It has a place, but depending on what is occuring at the time, a place that would be proportional to other things.
    My curiousity is certainly piqued and I'd love to thumb through some of the latest texts. My cousin teaches high school history (and has done the whole range from the most disadvantaged communities in the Bronx to the privileged sons and daughters of diplomats), so I'm curious to get his take on what is/isn't/should/shouldn't be taught.

    Interesting side note:
    I have a text from 1928 that my grandmother taught from in a poor, rural, Southern town. Volume One alone is almost 1000 pages long and gets you through "the downfall of the Confederacy." No pictures, maps or graphs of course. It makes even my College text seem like a Cliffs Notes or "History for Dummies" version. Of course, history used to be a much more substantial portion of the curriculum back then.

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    Re: CA Senate bill mandates gay history in schools

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Nowadays, from what I hear from clients I work with, current affairs is more prominent in history classes. I do think that gay marriage would be something to be discussed... but not as key as Libya, the budget, and many other things.
    I should add that we certainly discussed issues of the day (like Libya) that students indicated an interest in (or sometimes feigned interest in to see how long a delighted "my students are engaged" teacher would put off the day's lesson). We may even have been encouraged to explore such topics by getting extra credit for writing a summary of a newspaper clipping, Newsweek article, or somesuch. My comments in this thread are more aimed at the mandated curriculum.

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