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Thread: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

  1. #321
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post

    Ummm, yeah, that's what I said -- they were naturalized citizens, as opposed to being natural born citizens.



    Who said the grandfather clause applied to Obama? The natural born citizen clause applies to him.
    You are missing the point. Someone (forgot who and I am not going back through this thread) pointed out that Washington and others were NOT born in the US because there WAS no US. The exception in the Constitution regarding them has to do with those who were citizens when the Constitution was adopted.

    I know the natural born citizen clause applies to him. I am not a birther. Even if he was a dual national at birth, 1. I have no problem with this and 2. he would STILL be a natural born citizen under the concept of jus soli which has a long history in English common law that predates the U.S. Constitution and would have been what the Founders would have been informed by when they wrote the clause into the Constitution.
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    True enough, but the commonly accepted application of the term seems to apply to any person who is constitutionally considered a U.S. citizen at birth. And by "commonly accepted" I mean by our government. Obama is now the second president we've had whose father was not a U.S. citizen at the time of their respective births.
    Not only that, it was commonly accepted as a matter of common law even before the Constitution was ratified.
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    It is clear this should be a federal law.

    Once again Arizona leads the way.

    Only ignorant liberals would oppose this.

    It was one of those oversights in the Constitution.

    This will insurer Obama is a one term failure. I think there needs to be a jail term tp go along with it.

    I would love to see Obama do a few years, as in life without payroll.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The Founding Fathers were long dead before Chet Arthur came along. They neither allowed nor prevented him from taking office.

    At any rate, the birthplace of the parents is immaterial. The 14th Amendment grants citizenship to all people born in the United States. No law has ever been passed stating that this is not "natural born" citizenship. In fact, I'm not aware of a law that has been passed defining what a "natural born citizen" is. It's largely been assumed to mean "citizen since birth," which would apply to a person born in the US regardless of their parents' respective citizenships.

    The question then is, does Arizona have the right to decide this? Legally, the States regulate the elections and the rules around it. But could you imagine the chaos surrounding a Presidential election if every State had different candidates? And what happens if a person is considered a "natural born citizen" by say, Hawaii, but not by Arizona? Not just in terms of who can be President, but in any legal case where a person's citizenship applies? Would that person need a passport to change planes in Phoenix?
    I can imagine the Democrats having a hell of a time trying to jiggy up an election.
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  5. #325
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I can imagine the Democrats having a hell of a time trying to jiggy up an election.
    "I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat."
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    There's so much stupidity in this thread I'm going to just keep out. I think my favorite part was the anger of the guy who hates Texas. It is so incredibly unAmaerican to hate your fellow countrymen. And I'm guessing you never been anywhere near the beautiful state of Texas. Or met some of the most friendly and hospitable and polite people in this country.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Right.

    One has to PROVE one is a citizen.

    Now that we have that straight, to be president one has to prove one is a NATURAL BORN citizen, and Arizona apparently did not already have a law stipulating that for applicants to the "President" slot on it's state-wide ballots.

    Now it does.

    So what's your problem with a state requiring the Constitution be obeyed, given that it's the states that control ballot access?
    Whhoo
    I'm waiting on my my new prescription. I thought you said "no one has to prove one is a citizen" I was ready to let you have it.

    My glasses won't be ready till at least Monday so I apologize in advance for any mistakes I make. I'm very sorry.

    Coarse it wouldn't hurt everybody to make the font on all their posts larger, would it? Just for a few days.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, now we're talking about something different. You can be a natural-born citizen and not be born in the United States. If Arizona wanted to impose a requirement that all presidential candidates on the Arizona ballot were born in the United States, they'd probably run into some Equal Protection issues just for imposing that requirement.

    But as for PROVING natural-born citizenship: If certain classes of people are generally less able to provide that proof than others (due to their age, race, income level, or place of birth), it constitutes an undue burden and violates the Equal Protection clause.
    No, any person born and registered according to the laws of the individual states can, without undue effort, demonstrate that his birth complied with those laws and that he is, in fact, "natural born" as the Constitution demands.

    In the United State in the year 2011, not one person lawfully born here, regardless of age, race, anyotherbull****category, can get an official copy of his BC that would satisfy Arizona's law. There's no "undue burden" here, nor, since the law does not make any distinction among races, etc, is there any question this violates the Fourteenth Amendment.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That joint session of Congress is when the federal government validates the election as legitimate, and the President-Elect and VP-Elect as eligible to serve. If there are any objections to the results of the electoral college (such as "I object to the electors from Ohio choosing Barack Obama as president, on the grounds that he is not a natural-born citizen"), this is when they are dealt with. Congresspeople need to make a written objection, get it signed by one senator and one representative, and present it to the President of the Senate (the VPOTUS) during the joint session.

    If a written objection is signed and presented by one senator and one representative, then it is read before the joint session and Congress will hear the arguments and vote on it. If they vote to uphold the electors, then they move on. If they vote to overturn the electors (which has never happened to my knowledge), then the case would most likely end up before the Supreme Court.

    But in any case, the federal government most certainly DOES weigh in on whether or not a person is eligible to be president. They didn't do a "detailed records search to verify the natural born citizen requirement" because no one in Congress filed an objection to Obama's election on those grounds during the joint session.
    Yes.

    As the Mayor said, the Congress counted votes.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    That's BS. My mother never accepted American citizenship (she was a British Jew), but I am definitely a 100 percent, homegrown natural born American. I am glad I don't know you in real life, because, if I did, I would knock your nose off if you called me anything else.

    Finally, I have been at Debate Politics for almost 6 years. Congratulations. You are the very first person to go on my ignore list. All I have seen you post since you got here is conspiracy lunacy, and I have had enough of it.

    The issue in Obama's case is that his mother was very young when she spawned him. And the laws of the time were that she wasn't old enough to confer citizenship on Obama if, in fact, he was born in Kenya. You can search the birther pages for a detailed explanation, but the law of the time was plain regarding that.

    Other than that, your response to the details presented in the example given seem accurate enough. The argument against Obama weren't about any dual citizenship nonsense (which the US should reject and require all citizens to make the choice to be either in, or out), but about his alleged place of birth.

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