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Thread: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

  1. #311
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    But what kind of citizen do you think he is? Native Born, Natural Born or Naturalized?
    How about your provide the authoritative and established criteria for "native born" and "natural born" and then we can see?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti

    That exception separates naturalized Americans from natural born Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post

    no... it refers to people who were citizens when the Constitution came into effect...

    Ummm, yeah, that's what I said -- they were naturalized citizens, as opposed to being natural born citizens.


    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post

    ... Obama isn't THAT old...
    Who said the grandfather clause applied to Obama? The natural born citizen clause applies to him.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    But what kind of citizen do you think he is? Native Born, Natural Born or Naturalized?
    U.S. citizens at birth are both. Either by jus soli or jus sanguini.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post

    How about your provide the authoritative and established criteria for "native born" and "natural born" and then we can see?
    For what it's worth, here's an online definition:

    nat·u·ral-born

    1. native-born.

    I have a feeling Apuzo isn't going to accept that. Call it a hunch.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    For what it's worth, here's an online definition:

    nat·u·ral-born

    1. native-born.

    I have a feeling Apuzo isn't going to accept that. Call it a hunch.
    It's not really authoritative in re our constitution. AFAICT, this matter hasn't been specifically ruled on.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It's not really authoritative in re our constitution. AFAICT, this matter hasn't been specifically ruled on.
    On July 28, 2009, Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying, "I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen."[76] On July 27, 2009, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.Res. 593, commemorating the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood, including the text, "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961".[77] The vote passed 378-0.[

    Natural Born Citizen Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post

    It's not really authoritative in re our constitution. AFAICT, this matter hasn't been specifically ruled on.
    True enough, but the commonly accepted application of the term seems to apply to any person who is constitutionally considered a U.S. citizen at birth. And by "commonly accepted" I mean by our government. Obama is now the second president we've had whose father was not a U.S. citizen at the time of their respective births.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    On July 28, 2009, Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying, "I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen."[76] On July 27, 2009, the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.Res. 593, commemorating the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood, including the text, "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961".[77] The vote passed 378-0.[

    Natural Born Citizen Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    While I have great respect for Dr. Fukino and empathize with her having to deal with the nutty birfers, I don't view her as an authority either to declare Obama a natural born citizen. Only the U.S.S.C. is in a position to do that.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The state of Arizona is not imposing a new requirement to be president of the United States. It is merely codifying means to verify that said person actually meets the qualifications that are outlined in the Constitution of the United States. Elections for electors are STATE affairs and as such, the state has the right to verify that any candidate meets the requirements. No potential candidate who does NOT meet the requirements should be allowed to register in ANY state. This law merely gives election officials in the states the means to verify eligibility. Nothing more.
    By default, no state has any requirements to get on their presidential ballot, and the federal requirements are looked at by the FEDERAL government once the electoral college makes its decision. Now, if Arizona wants to pass a law that says "You have to be 35 years old, 14 years in US residency, and a natural-born citizen to qualify for Arizona's presidential ballot," they can do so. Those would be NEW requirements that the STATE is imposing to qualify for the state ballot. What they can't do is try to do the federal government's job and verify federal requirements, nor can they impose verification measures that make it relatively more difficult for certain classes of eligible candidates to get on the ballot.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-15-11 at 05:22 PM.
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Are you sure about this? Care to provide evidence of this claim as it is quite central to the argument that this proposed Arizona law is not needed...
    That's the job of the Joint Session of Congress that certifies the electoral college's results. If there is any question about the impropriety of what the electors have done (such as select someone to be president who does not meet the constitutional requirement), a representative and a senator must sign an objection and present it to the President of the Senate. Congress will then hear the objections, listen to any evidence that the congresspeople have that the electors acted improperly, and then vote on it.

    A majority of the electoral college and of both houses of Congress all agreed that President Obama was eligible to be president. In fact, Congress didn't even entertain any objections that he was not eligible, during this joint session.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-15-11 at 05:33 PM.
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