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Thread: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I've told you the problem. This was already done, and there was no need for further legislation. We were not ahving a problem at all. It's silliness and unneccessary.
    If it's already done, then there's no reason for you to be whining about this law.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The same as the do before the law, the same reason Aronald couldn't run, you always had to be a citizen. Your law changes nothing.
    Right.

    One has to PROVE one is a citizen.

    Now that we have that straight, to be president one has to prove one is a NATURAL BORN citizen, and Arizona apparently did not already have a law stipulating that for applicants to the "President" slot on it's state-wide ballots.

    Now it does.

    So what's your problem with a state requiring the Constitution be obeyed, given that it's the states that control ballot access?

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    The law is unnecessary, I am sure when a candidate files to run for president, the candidate must file the proper documentation at the Federal level. Determining who can legally run for president is not a right states have.
    Well, how about that at the state level, which is where ballot access happens, there was no such protection.

    Perhaps you could go back to high school and discover the principle of federalism?

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Ever notice that Arizona is becoming more and more ridiculous and nobody is following their lead? Arizona is quickly replacing Texas as the clown-state of the Union.
    Texas, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia are implementing or considering some form of birth certificate check.

    Georigia, Florida, Nebraska, Alabama, Utah, Oklahoma, Virginia, South Carolina, are working to implement Arizona-style Find the Invader laws, because there's nothing wrong with the cops asking suspects for their ID.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Irrelevant. It's up to the FEDERAL government to determine if candidates meet the FEDERAL requirements for president. If individual STATES want to impose their own requirements in addition to these, they are able to do so (to a certain extent). So if Arizona wants to impose a natural-born citizenship requirement of its own, or a non-polygamy requirement of its own, it would probably be able to do so. Those two requirements would be functionally identical; the fact that the US Constitution requires one and not the other doesn't matter, because in this case it would be an individual state imposing them both.

    The problem the state will encounter lies in imposing an undue burden of proof on someone. You can't require a birth certificate if certain classes of eligible people are going to be less able to produce one than others.
    Arizona isn't deciding if a candidate meets federal requirements for president, per se.

    Arizona is establishing a ballot access requirement for candidates seeking a slot on the Arizona ballot, one which is no different than the state requiring the candidate have a minimum number of signatures on the petition, or establishing a filing deadline, all of which vary among the states.

    Requesting a candidate provide proof of birth in the United States is not by any measure an undue burden on anyone.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    A joint session of Congress certified the results of the electoral college on January 6, 2009.
    That means they counted votes.

    It doesn't mean they did a detailed records search to verify the Natural Born Citizen requirement.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Because it's basically written to exclude him.
    Since you assert Obama is a natural born citizen you cannot claim a requirement to provide proof the candidate is a natural born citizen is designed to exclude Obama.

    Your statement confirms the existence of doubt in your mind over the veracity of Obama's citizenship pretenses.

    For example, it specifies that certification of a Baptism or ceremonial circumcision is acceptable. Now if a person's parents are an atheist and a not exactly practicing Muslim, what do you think the chances are that they are baptized as an infant, or circumcised by a Rabbi?
    Then that aspect of the law is invalid. The demand that an applicant provide a real, genuine, certified birth certificate avoids the pitfalls of your example, which was, in fact, a valid argument that the Mayor was surprised to see coming from you. Which website provided it for you?

    Don't you think that if this was a great conspiracy, that they would have been able to whip up a fake long form certificate? So far, we've heard that the ENTIRE GOVERNMENT OF HAWAII is in on this. Including the Republican party. Assuming that were true, don't you think that both major parties and everybody that works for the State government would have been able to whip something up if they worked together on it?
    Yes, the Mayor thinks that the Obama gang has had sufficient time to finally make a real fake birth certificate to replace the one they provided in 2008, but since any real-looking fake they provide will make the fake-looking fake they already provided look fake, the Obama administration and his cadre of Useful Idiots will be out in force protesting a state's right to set it's own ballot access requirements.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Arizona isn't deciding if a candidate meets federal requirements for president, per se.

    Arizona is establishing a ballot access requirement for candidates seeking a slot on the Arizona ballot, one which is no different than the state requiring the candidate have a minimum number of signatures on the petition, or establishing a filing deadline, all of which vary among the states.
    I agree so far. If Arizona wishes to impose a natural-born citizen requirement to be listed as president on Arizona's ballot, it would (probably) pass constitutional muster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum
    Requesting a candidate provide proof of birth in the United States is not by any measure an undue burden on anyone.
    Well, now we're talking about something different. You can be a natural-born citizen and not be born in the United States. If Arizona wanted to impose a requirement that all presidential candidates on the Arizona ballot were born in the United States, they'd probably run into some Equal Protection issues just for imposing that requirement.

    But as for PROVING natural-born citizenship: If certain classes of people are generally less able to provide that proof than others (due to their age, race, income level, or place of birth), it constitutes an undue burden and violates the Equal Protection clause.
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    That means they counted votes.

    It doesn't mean they did a detailed records search to verify the Natural Born Citizen requirement.
    That joint session of Congress is when the federal government validates the election as legitimate, and the President-Elect and VP-Elect as eligible to serve. If there are any objections to the results of the electoral college (such as "I object to the electors from Ohio choosing Barack Obama as president, on the grounds that he is not a natural-born citizen"), this is when they are dealt with. Congresspeople need to make a written objection, get it signed by one senator and one representative, and present it to the President of the Senate (the VPOTUS) during the joint session.

    If a written objection is signed and presented by one senator and one representative, then it is read before the joint session and Congress will hear the arguments and vote on it. If they vote to uphold the electors, then they move on. If they vote to overturn the electors (which has never happened to my knowledge), then the case would most likely end up before the Supreme Court.

    But in any case, the federal government most certainly DOES weigh in on whether or not a person is eligible to be president. They didn't do a "detailed records search to verify the natural born citizen requirement" because no one in Congress filed an objection to Obama's election on those grounds during the joint session.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-15-11 at 05:00 AM.
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    Sorry but the problem is that Obama's father was not a citizen. If Obama was born in the Lincoln bedroom he wouldn't be a natural born citizen and eligible for Article 2 Section 1. He was born a dual British Citizen. That was never the intent of the founders at the adoption of our constitution especially after we just finished a war with England. There was no way they were going to take a chance for a future president to be born with a allegiance to another nation.
    That's BS. My mother never accepted American citizenship (she was a British Jew), but I am definitely a 100 percent, homegrown natural born American. I am glad I don't know you in real life, because, if I did, I would knock your nose off if you called me anything else.

    Finally, I have been at Debate Politics for almost 6 years. Congratulations. You are the very first person to go on my ignore list. All I have seen you post since you got here is conspiracy lunacy, and I have had enough of it.
    Last edited by danarhea; 04-15-11 at 06:19 AM.
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