Page 18 of 36 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 351

Thread: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

  1. #171
    User
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-17-11 @ 07:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    78

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Mistake?? Prove that.

    Arthur was elected twice, once as president and once as vice president. And in both elections, it was known that his father was not a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth. You're saying the same mistake was made twice with Arthur and once (so far) with Obama ... I say it's precedent.
    Show me proof it was for sure known that Arthurs father was not a citizen at that time like we know Obama's was for sure today.

  2. #172
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,896
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    My suggestion would be to start believing state governments, the researches that vet candidates from both major candidates, the various politically motivated groups that weren't able to find hard evidence, and the President over the words of a known publicity hound that is gearing up for a potential run for President if you're not going to try to verify it for yourself first.
    I grew up in Arkansas during the Clinton reign. I feel quite assured that if it was possible, the Clinton's would have had Obama disqualified. It wouldn't've even had to've been 100% above the board, but merely possible.

  3. #173
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I think it's kind of funny. This is what Obama gets for being secretive.
    He hasn't been secretive. Not a bit. There is nothing not known here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #174
    User
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-17-11 @ 07:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    78

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Perhaps you are aware that Duncan v. Louisiana had dick-diddly to do with the question being natural born.
    Also the snippet you quote is taken out of context. Perhaps you know that too.

    Justice black said that its wiser to rely on what was said as opposed to relying on what was not said.
    FindLaw | Cases and Codes
    "Professor Fairman's "history" relies very heavily on what was not said in the state legislatures that passed on the Fourteenth Amendment. Instead of relying on this kind of negative pregnant, my legislative experience has convinced me that it is far wiser to rely on what was said, and most importantly, said by the men who actually sponsored the Amendment in the Congress."

    Also, Mr Bingham's quote is taken out of context and is also factually incorrect.
    http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llcg/071/0300/03331291.tif
    "I find no fault with the intriductory clause, which is simply what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born in the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution, a natural born citizen; but, sir, I may be allowed to say further, that I deny that the Congress of the United States ever had teh power or color of power to say that any man born within the jurisdiction of the United States not owing a foreign allegiance, is not and shall not be a citizen of the United States. Citizenship is a birthright, and neither the Congress nor teh States can justly or lawfully take it from him."
    As we all know, it is not written in the Constitution, that every human being born in the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is a natural born citizen.
    Do you think the founders wanted their future presidents to have a born allegiance to England after they fought a war against them for their independence...twice?

  5. #175
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    All post grandfather clause presidents were natural born citizens. Several (Buchanan, Hoover and Wilson) had a parent that was foreign born but they became naturalized U.S. citizens before they were born. With them now having two parents (plural) who were U.S. citizens at their births, they were born natural born citizens. Now one exception that has been rumoured who slipped through possibly was Chester Arthur in 1885 when Garfield was shot. He was said to have been born in Vermont or Canada but his dad was born in Ireland. Arthur wouldn't show his records and there issues of his eligibility back then. It was later that it was rumored that Arthurs dad was naturalized when Chester was 14 thus if that was the case then Chester was never eligible and was a British dual citizen but that is no excuse today for Obama because of Athur. The founders would have never let Arthur take office.
    Nice information, thanks. however, it doesn't point to any real problem that I can see.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #176
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    If you read the bill, you'll see that AZ will except the Hawaiian short form COLB as evidence, but Obama will need addition information to get on the ballot.

    Check out the Antenori amendment to the bill below:

    "The Antenori floor amendment to the Government Reform Committee amendment inserts language regarding a presidential candidate who does not possess a long form birth certificate. A candidate would be able to include two or more of the following:

    a) baptismal or circumcision certificate

    b) hospital birth record

    c) postpartum medical record

    d) early census record.

    Additionally, a candidate would also be able to submit a notarized affidavit from two or more persons who witnessed the candidates birth."

    So Obama can show his alleged short form, And one more of those listed above either a, c, or d. or he can show a long form that Hawaii issues.
    That's funny, nowhere in that section of the law you posted does it state what you claimed it states, that being Arizona will accept a short form, but with additional information. What it does say is that 2 or more of the forms they identify can be used as evidence in lieu of a long form certificate. That's what I said it states.

    They won't accept a certified short form which states where a person was born but they will accept a certification of circumcision, even though circumcisions that come with certificates occur 8 days after the baby was born. The baby could have been born anywhere.

  7. #177
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    Do you think the founders wanted their future presidents to have a born allegiance to England after they fought a war against them for their independence...twice?
    Yet the first few they elected were born British subjects.

  8. #178
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    08-25-16 @ 08:31 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    11,265

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    Show me proof it was for sure known that Arthurs father was not a citizen at that time like we know Obama's was for sure today.
    I already showed you that proof on another thread. Here is the document of Arthur's father's naturalization which is public information.



  9. #179
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,896
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    Do you think the founders wanted their future presidents to have a born allegiance to England after they fought a war against them for their independence...twice?
    Or, you could ask if the founders meant to prevent people born in the US to an American and a foreigner to be considered eligible for the presidency.
    That would be more to the point and less of a red-herring type question than the one you offered.
    Why do you have to fall back to loaded questions like that? Why not employ facts?

    Would you please provide an authoritative interpretation of natural born citizen in re the US Constitution?

    It's not clear that the Secretary of State or the State Department has the power to interpret the Constitution authoritatively. Generally that power is thought to reside in the judicial branch, not the executive. So your previous citations don't qualify as authoritative

    Also, it would be nice if you admitted that the Cong Globe was the documentation of Congressional debates where people said all sorts of things. These debate are also not often considered to be authoritative interpretations of the Constitution. So, you quote from the Congressional Globe doesn't really resolve a thing. So your previous citations don't qualify as authoritative

    The Eisenhower case proves that a simple birth certificate is sufficient to prove one's eligibility to be PotUSA.
    I may be wrong.

  10. #180
    Ideologically Impure
    Simon W. Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Fayettenam
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,896
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I already showed you that proof on another thread. Here is the document of Arthur's father's naturalization which is public information.
    Didn't Apuzo provide a link to a source that has a link to that exact document? How is it that Apuzo didn't know this information already? Didn't he read his sources?
    I may be wrong.

Page 18 of 36 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •