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Thread: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

  1. #161
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Already some candidates are on the ballot in some states and not others. Already there are different requirements from state to state pertaining to how to get on the ballot in that state.
    True, but none of those other candidates are the nominee of either the Democratic or Republican Parties.

    [/QUOTE]Natural born citizen really only has a single, solitary place where it's relevant. At least afaik.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, I think it has bearing on the entire citizenship question. I am a citizen of the US based on my birthplace in the state of New York, and did not need to be naturalized. What happens if I go to another state with strict laws concerning showing proof of citizenship when I get pulled over for speeding (like Arizona), and I get hauled off to an prison for being "illegal" because my Birth Certificate isn't up to their standards.

    Really, the point is that citizenship clearly is under the auspices of the Federal Government, and should not be left to each state to define on it's own.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    How does a certificate of circumcision prove a person was born in the U.S.? That is just one of the documents Arizona is willing to accept as prove of birth in the U.S.. But they're not willing to accept a certified short form certificate.
    If you read the bill, you'll see that AZ will except the Hawaiian short form COLB as evidence, but Obama will need addition information to get on the ballot.

    Check out the Antenori amendment to the bill below:

    "The Antenori floor amendment to the Government Reform Committee amendment inserts language regarding a presidential candidate who does not possess a long form birth certificate. A candidate would be able to include two or more of the following:

    a) baptismal or circumcision certificate

    b) hospital birth record

    c) postpartum medical record

    d) early census record.

    Additionally, a candidate would also be able to submit a notarized affidavit from two or more persons who witnessed the candidates birth."

    So Obama can show his alleged short form, And one more of those listed above either a, c, or d. or he can show a long form that Hawaii issues.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    This is pretty ridiculous.

    An official government document = unreliable and untrustworthy

    A piece of paper that says the tip of his penis was cut off = infallible evidence of birth in the united states
    It does prove that that person is a Christian or Jew, not some mixed blood offspring of an atheist and a Muslim.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    This is crucial to understanding that Obama is not eligible to be President as it provides the strongest Supreme Court statement – post Wong Kim Ark – indicating that the current occupant of the White House is not in legal possession of the office of President.
    Now you're misrepresenting the decision in U.S. v Wong Kim Ark. In the decision, it stated there is a doubt about whether or not a person born in the U.S. with only U.S. president is considered a natural born citizen, but for the sake of the case at hand, it was not necessary to address that doubt. That doubt remains to this day as it's never been answered in U.S. law. For you to assert a definition is dishonest in this debate. And given we've now how at least 2 U.S. presidents be born in the U.S. to one U.S. citizen parent, I posit that precedent proves your assertion wrong.

    At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further, and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction, without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class, there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Now you're misrepresenting the decision in U.S. v Wong Kim Ark. In the decision, it stated there is a doubt about whether or not a person born in the U.S. with only U.S. president is considered a natural born citizen, but for the sake of the case at hand, it was not necessary to address that doubt. That doubt remains to this day as it's never been answered in U.S. law. For you to assert a definition is dishonest in this debate. And given we've now how at least 2 U.S. presidents be born in the U.S. to one U.S. citizen parent, I posit that precedent proves your assertion wrong.

    At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further, and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction, without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class, there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.
    Arthur was a mistake and you are using that mistake as a excuse to validate Obama's usurpation of the office of the presidency. That is pathetic. Your heart should be in upholding Article 2 Section 1.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    Fight the Smears in paid for by Organizing For America that supports Obama. Obama apparently hasn't contested the statement or it would be not on their if he did. The website is stating the facts about Obama's birth being governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948.
    Nice deflection, but you claimed Obama stated it. Not only did he not, but you're quoting it from a website which quoted it from another website and even worse, provided a disclaimer at the bottom stating that it was not authorized by Obama.

    "So why did Obama feel compelled to state that his birth status was governed by the British Nationality Act of 1948 rather than the 14th Amendment?" ~ Apuzo

    Oh, my, that's not true at all.

    Speaking of not true, why am I still waiting for you to post the U.S. law which defines a natural born citizen as being a person born to both parents who are U.S. citizens?

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    United States Supreme Court Associate Justice Hugo Black, in a concurring opinion in Duncan v. Louisiana, 391 U.S. 145 (1968), emphasizes his reliance upon the statements made by Representative Bingham which pertain to the drafting and adoption of the 14th Amendment. Justice Black stated that “it is far wiser to rely on” the words of Bingham and Howard when analyzing the 14th Amendment
    Perhaps you are aware that Duncan v. Louisiana had dick-diddly to do with the question being natural born.
    Also the snippet you quote is taken out of context. Perhaps you know that too.

    Justice black said that its wiser to rely on what was said as opposed to relying on what was not said.
    FindLaw | Cases and Codes
    "Professor Fairman's "history" relies very heavily on what was not said in the state legislatures that passed on the Fourteenth Amendment. Instead of relying on this kind of negative pregnant, my legislative experience has convinced me that it is far wiser to rely on what was said, and most importantly, said by the men who actually sponsored the Amendment in the Congress."

    Also, Mr Bingham's quote is taken out of context and is also factually incorrect.
    http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llcg/071/0300/03331291.tif
    "I find no fault with the intriductory clause, which is simply what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born in the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution, a natural born citizen; but, sir, I may be allowed to say further, that I deny that the Congress of the United States ever had teh power or color of power to say that any man born within the jurisdiction of the United States not owing a foreign allegiance, is not and shall not be a citizen of the United States. Citizenship is a birthright, and neither the Congress nor teh States can justly or lawfully take it from him."
    As we all know, it is not written in the Constitution, that every human being born in the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is a natural born citizen.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    Arthur was a mistake and you are using that mistake as a excuse to validate Obama's usurpation of the office of the presidency. That is pathetic. Your heart should be in upholding Article 2 Section 1.
    Mistake?? Prove that.

    Arthur was elected twice, once as president and once as vice president. And in both elections, it was known that his father was not a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth. You're saying the same mistake was made twice with Arthur and once (so far) with Obama ... I say it's precedent.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    Arthur was a mistake and you are using that mistake as a excuse to validate Obama's usurpation of the office of the presidency. That is pathetic. Your heart should be in upholding Article 2 Section 1.
    If you read the post you're responding to, it has no mention of Arthur.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Well then Trump need to stop saying we don't know what hospital.
    My suggestion would be to start believing state governments, the researches that vet candidates from both major candidates, the various politically motivated groups that weren't able to find hard evidence, and the President over the words of a known publicity hound that is gearing up for a potential run for President if you're not going to try to verify it for yourself first.

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