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Thread: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

  1. #141
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    [INDENT][INDENT](a) EARLY BAPTISMAL OR CIRCUMCISION CERTIFICATE.
    This one also bothers me. Who is baptized or circumcised? Christians and Jews. So if your parents were say, atheist and muslim...

    It just seems like the law is written to say "not Barack Obama" without saying that.

  2. #142
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    This is interesting. Because I'm sure all the birthers would shut up if two people said that Obama was born in the US.
    Exactly. The JFK conspiracy people shut up when... oh wait. How long ha sit been? 5 decades?
    The Elders of Zion people shut up when...oh wait.

    Hey! I see what you did there. That was sarcasm in your post.
    I may be wrong.

  3. #143
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post
    Yes I do have a link. It's called Fight The Smears:

    Fight the Smears: The Truth About Barack

    “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

    The last sentence confirms he was born a dual citizen.
    Except for the little problem that the USA does not allow dual citizenship. Plus that other little thing about being born in the USA automatically guarantees citizenship. So in effect, the US simply doesn't recognize Obama's British citizenship.

    Care to start over?
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


  4. #144
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    In fact, I'm not aware of a law that has been passed defining what a "natural born citizen" is.
    There hasn't been. That's why Apuzo won't provide a real one--he can't. Instead he uses some quotes pulled from here an there as if they were authoritative or definitive.
    It's a pretty big hole in his case. But, give credit where credit is due. At least he knows that his argument has holes in it. That's a step above, (or below depending on your perspective), many birthers who don't realize that their case is sieve-like.
    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Legally, the States regulate the elections and the rules around it. But could you imagine the chaos surrounding a Presidential election if every State had different candidates?
    Already some candidates are on the ballot in some states and not others. Already there are different requirements from state to state pertaining to how to get on the ballot in that state.
    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    And what happens if a person is considered a "natural born citizen" by say, Hawaii, but not by Arizona? Not just in terms of who can be President, but in any legal case where a person's citizenship applies? Would that person need a passport to change planes in Phoenix?
    Natural born citizen really only has a single, solitary place where it's relevant. At least afaik.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    Except for the little problem that the USA does not allow dual citizenship.
    This is not true.
    US State Department Services Dual Nationality

    The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

    A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship.
    I may be wrong.

  6. #146
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I think it's kind of funny. This is what Obama gets for being secretive.
    Secretive?

    You have proof in a court of law about his place of birth, available for all to see. That documentation has been authenticated by the appropriate state health department officials.

    Can I say the same about you?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post

    At any rate, the birthplace of the parents is immaterial
    So why did the 'Father of the 14th Amendment, John Bingham define Natural Born Citizen as this if parents were immaterial?


    “Every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

    United States Supreme Court Associate Justice Hugo Black, in a concurring opinion in Duncan v. Louisiana, 391 U.S. 145 (1968), emphasizes his reliance upon the statements made by Representative Bingham which pertain to the drafting and adoption of the 14th Amendment. Justice Black stated that “it is far wiser to rely on” the words of Bingham and Howard when analyzing the 14th Amendment.

    This is crucial to understanding that Obama is not eligible to be President as it provides the strongest Supreme Court statement – post Wong Kim Ark – indicating that the current occupant of the White House is not in legal possession of the office of President.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post

    Gee, another stupid bill from Arizona. What will President Obama need to do that he hasn't already done? Stupid Republicans.
    I like how the bill states if a candidate doesn't have a long form certificate, they can submit 2 or more of the following: early baptismal certificate, circumcision certificate, hospital birth record, postpartum medical record, or early census record. Apparently the state of Arizona thinks a circumcision record can more accurately prove a person was born in the U.S. than a short form birth certificate.

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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Apuzo View Post

    That made Obama at birth a dual British Citizen and not a natural born citizen despite being born in Hawaii.
    I'm still waiting for the U.S. that states that. I think that is your opinion and not U.S. law. Especially since we've now had at least two presidents with only one parent being a U.S. citizen.

  10. #150
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    Re: Associated Press: Arizona Senate Approves 'Birther' Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Does anybody honestly think even this law would make the birthers shut the **** up? Or avoid a similar situation in the future? Tinfoil hatters who aren't satisfied by proof in a court of law aren't going to be satisfied by anything. Current law is more than sufficient to settle the question for any candidate to the satisfaction of a reasonable person. Why bother pandering to the unreasonable crowd?
    Tell us what exactly is wrong with a law that requests documentation that a presidential candidate meet the requirements of office. Then give us a link to this "current law" that is more than sufficient to settle the question. I'll check back in July.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    And besides all that, he's black... right? That's all this is really about.
    Tinfoil hats/racial prejudice...whatever it takes to discredit yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    1. Arizona requests proper documentation.
    2. Hawaii provides them with the same documentation that has been public knowledge for many years now.
    3. Arizona either accepts it and shuts up about it, or they argue that it's illegitimate. If they choose the latter, they are saying that Hawaii's records are not valid. That seems to be a pretty clear-cut violation of the Full Faith and Credit clause. What makes you think it would be a "stretch" to show that? What about this situation is the slightest bit unclear from a constitutional perspective? Every state has to accept the reality that you have a legitimate driver's license from your home state; that doesn't mean that every state has to allow you to drive when you're there if you don't mean their own requirements. Driving is something you DO; being born in a state is something that you already ARE. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that this suddenly came up in the midst of the "birther" movement, when conspiracy nuts have accused the black president with a Muslim-sounding name of being born elsewhere.
    What do you think of my proposed law? If any ex-governors of Massachusetts want to run for president, they have to prove that they have never been involved in polygamous marriages. I'm not referring to any specific person, just anyone who happens to meet that criteria.
    1st Bold: One state does not have to recognize a License to Carry from another state, nor a plain old gun permit. 2nd Bold: The absolutely amazing thing is that we don't have something like this on the national level. 3rd Bold: Get 2/3 of the states to approve an amendment to the constitution, and we'll talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Right, but McCain was not born in the U.S. but on a military base so there was a quetion of eligibility. Obama was born on U.S. soil and has provided documentation to prove it. See the difference?
    No, I don't. There was some question about his citizenship and he went before a congressional committee to prove his eligibility. I don't believe that Obama is ineligible. My own personal opinion. However, I see nothing wrong with Arizona setting out steps that must be taken to prove a candidate's eligibility to be President of the United States. The amazing thing is that it's never been done on the national level. Never. In over 200 years. How absolutely weird.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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