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Thread: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Murder is a legal term denoting a crime. Abortion is not a crime. If you want to call it "killing" be my guest. You will have no argument from me with that term.
    No.

    "Murder" is a legal term only in a courtroom. It existed in language before law. Since the Mayor has moved to a new residence, his thirty pound Dictionary of Words That Internet Dictionaries Won't Look Up is packed in a box somewhere. However, the word "murder" has more definitions than just the legal, including, off the top of the Mayor's head, a "murder" of crows. Murder means the killing of a human with deliberate intent. As you might see, this is somewhat different than the legal meaning of the word "oops".

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    I love how people say abortion is not about convenience and then give an entire litany of justifications rooted solely in the idea that babies are inconvenient.
    Point out where I said that abortion is not about convienience and then get back to me.


    Abortion is a scourge on mankind of our own design and the tolerance for it is an indication of rampant depravity in our society. We are not talking about smoking pot or paying for a blowjob. These are human lives being taken and no humane civilization should allow it. How we deal with the potential fallout of abolishing this evil is another matter to be considered after the fact.
    Wrong. That is the irresponsible course. Setting something in motion without a plan of how to deal with it is like building a house without a foundation. This is classic from some pro-lifers. You want to end abortion, but you have no plan... nor desire to deal with what that means. With no plan, there is no reason to consider ending abortion from how I see it.

    Murder does not only refer to unlawful killing. Of course, whether you consider it unlawful depends. I for one think Roe v. Wade was an unconstitutional ruling that made poor legal arguments. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court is the court of last resort and no other body is allowed to offset their abuses so an illegal ruling stands as though it were legal.
    Irrelevant. Abortion is legal, currently. Therefore, it is not murder as defined, legally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So you would agree that capital punishment, no matter how it's practiced in whatever country, is not murder?
    Under the legal terms of THAT country, yes. Now, remember, we are talking legal here. That does not mean that I would not think that the acts were not morally reprehensible.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    The pro-choice voices in this thread correctly responding to the OP's useof the "terrorist card" renews my hope for humanity. Thanks.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You might want to try to look at the big picture, here. Actions have consequences, consequences that affect more than just the individual. More unwanted children means more possible abuse... or more need for social services... or more individuals with monetary issues... or more issues with health care, etc... This is not just an issue of what one's parents can manage. If one's parents cannot manage, which does occur, society as a whole is impacted, both in local and global ways. It is far more complex than a simple answer. Those who want to outlaw abortion need to present some sort of plan for managing the amount of unwanted children that will then be presented. Without a plan addressing that issue, those who want abortion ended are not really addressing the problem at all. All they are doing is trying to legislate their own morality, having zero consideration on the global impact.

    So, to answer your question, precisely, give us your SPECIFIC plan of how society should then deal with all the unwanted children that a policy of no abortions will yeild.
    Do nothing. Sorry, you wanted more? Well my lean should tell you I wouldn't do what you wanted.

    Protecting life is protecting rights. I have no interest in doing more.
    Last edited by Henrin; 04-09-11 at 03:49 AM.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    No.

    "Murder" is a legal term only in a courtroom. It existed in language before law. Since the Mayor has moved to a new residence, his thirty pound Dictionary of Words That Internet Dictionaries Won't Look Up is packed in a box somewhere. However, the word "murder" has more definitions than just the legal, including, off the top of the Mayor's head, a "murder" of crows. Murder means the killing of a human with deliberate intent. As you might see, this is somewhat different than the legal meaning of the word "oops".
    Yes.

    Murder is a legal term, first. Abortion is not murder, as abortion is legal. I'm sure that when Mayor Snorkum unpacks his dictionary, he will find that the first definition of murder concerns the legal terminology. Using the term in the abortion debate appeals to emotion only. Killing is more accurate.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK View Post
    The pro-choice voices in this thread correctly responding to the OP's useof the "terrorist card" renews my hope for humanity. Thanks.
    Pointing out blatantly moronic statements for what they are isn't really exceeding expectations imho.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    That's parsing definitions. Definition #1 is the definition most commonly used and applicable... which is why using the term is an appeal to emotion. And I reject God's Law as applying, legally, in this situation. That is a moral argument.
    No.

    Since other definitions exist, one cannot arbitrarily presume to apply one's preferred meaning on another's statement. To do so automatically forces the vision of a murder of crows leading to an investigation and prosecution for animal cruelty.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do nothing. Sorry, you wanted more? Well my lean should tell you I wouldn't do what you wanted.
    Yes, your lean told me PRECISELY how you would answer. DO NOTHING. Which is exactly why I commented on the overly simplistic view of a complex problem.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Yes.

    Murder is a legal term, first. Abortion is not murder, as abortion is legal. I'm sure that when Mayor Snorkum unpacks his dictionary, he will find that the first definition of murder concerns the legal terminology. Using the term in the abortion debate appeals to emotion only. Killing is more accurate.
    Mayor Snorkum is perfectly aware that this reference dates him severely, but your needle stuck. Go get your turntable serviced, your argument has already been defenestrated by multiple posters.

    Edit:

    But....killing what? Why, killing a human child.

    Now you can go round and round with that, I'm going to move on to some other topic that is less threadbare and shopworn. One must close one's mind before one can murder a child.
    Last edited by Mayor Snorkum; 04-09-11 at 03:52 AM.

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