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Thread: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Except I do believe that a fetus is alive in some not-so-meaningful sense of the word. When it develops consciousness, then it's a person whose life is the same as ordinary person. When it exists before consciousness, it's life is still at a stage of development that does not make it fully human.
    right but there can be no "consciousness" without a brain to make it happen. and i don't see the word "consciousness" in the definition of the opposite of life which is death which is defined to be "brain death" at least in 48 states.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by majora$$hole View Post
    right but there can be no "consciousness" without a brain to make it happen. and i don't see the word "consciousness" in the definition of the opposite of life which is death which is defined to be "brain death" at least in 48 states.
    right - and a fetus has brain life in the sense that its body can respond to external stimuli, etc. I agree that a fetus is alive, I just don't think it is alive in any meaningful sense of the word.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    right - and a fetus has brain life in the sense that its body can respond to external stimuli, etc. I agree that a fetus is alive, I just don't think it is alive in any meaningful sense of the word.
    it's just logical to me to make the point at which we determine when a human is alive at least corrispond to the point at which we determine when a human is dead which is "brain death" not "conscious death" according to the law.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Life is an incredible miracle. Having an abortion is like tossing away a winning lottery ticket every day for a thousand years. That's the odds that fetus survived to be born.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by majora$$hole View Post
    it's just logical to me to make the point at which we determine when a human is alive at least corrispond to the point at which we determine when a human is dead which is "brain death" not "conscious death" according to the law.
    I agree - it is logical - which is why a fetus is alive when it has brain life. It just doesn't have a meaningful version of life - according to me. Life isn't particularly meaningful without consciousness.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I agree - it is logical - which is why a fetus is alive when it has brain life. It just doesn't have a meaningful version of life - according to me. Life isn't particularly meaningful without consciousness.
    so you and i are really close on this i take it. i'm just a little fuzzy on "meaningful".

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Just as I said. All you are doing is appealing to emotion "the poor little human, boo hoo." That's an appeal to emotion logical fallacy. Make your argument without the dramatics and I won't have to call you on it.

    Your straw man argument is claiming I made an argument I never made. I never said that my answer to the complex question of what to do with unwanted chidren due to lack of abortions is to abort them. I asked a question, one which no one, including you, has answered. Again, I won't have to call you out on logical fallacies if you don't make them.
    CC, would you describe for us what happens in a D&C, please?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by majora$$hole View Post
    so you and i are really close on this i take it. i'm just a little fuzzy on "meaningful".
    Yeah, it seems that way. We both agree that a fetus/unborn child is alive and I believe that being alive before consciousness isn't a quality of life that compels me to become pro-life.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    I don't know where you get the idea that Democrats refuse to drill for oil - Democrats are just not predisposed to coddle the oil companies as the Republicans do.
    There is a lot of oil in Alaska the present government chooses to ignore and the Keystone pipeline has been waiting on a decision for far too long. If you call treating oil companies with some respect is "coddling" then i can see why some companies are saying it's become to difficult to do business there.

    The recent problem we had with BP came about due to the previous administration not enforcing stiff regulations against the companies, which resulted in serious damage to the environment. And nobody is giving the oil companies the heave-ho. I'm glad your economy is booming, perhaps the main reason being you don't have Republicans mucking it up. But considering your economy is booming, your unemployment rate is not all that much lower than ours.
    I'm glad out economy is doing well also, but I want the same for the American people too. And if you are going to strangle the chief suppliers of your energy resources then I can only see problems ahead. Nancy Pelosi visited here a while back to make sure Canada was following environmental guidelines but her visit was all for American political consumption. We follow very strict guidelines here but it's all become too political in the States.


    Most Americans still do, but some are hoping that some of the money from the wealthy will trickle down, don't want to upset the super wealthy by making sure they pay their fair share.
    This is a new attitude for Americans. I've never heard a time in their history when they waited for money to "trickle down". In fact this attitude seems exclusive to Americans right now.


    As a Canadian I don't see reason for your concern with what rights we consider important here in the US, since it doesn't affect you, but apparently abortion was an important right in Canada at some time, being that Canada has no restrictions on it.
    That's right, but we don't have the same rights here as the Americans do. Previous governments have removed those rights and the present generation grows up not realizing what is gone, or that they can never get it back. Now you're going through the same process and gradually eroding those rights that made your country great. We've seen it happen throughout the democracies and Europe is probably the best example of what the future holds.

    Wiki:
    Abortion in Canada is not limited by the law (on-demand, no time limit). While some non-legal obstacles exist, Canada is one of only a few nations with no legal restrictions on abortion.
    That's right also. A majority government put it under our Medical system and despite protests there was nothing the Canadian people could do. Now you have the freedom to debate abortion, a luxury Canadians don't have. Soon that debate will disappear in the US also, probably sooner than many think.
    And, you most certainly have a Welfare system, so I don't understand your uppity attitude about that.
    Our welfare system has become more strict, but of course we also have many dependent on it to. I once worked in a city welfare department for a couple of years and it just went from one generation among many families to the next. They just became paperwork and nothing was really ever expected of them.

    That may not be the reason they are moving up there, maybe they have just found some new suckers to squeeze money out of. But, you can't possibly be taxing corporations less than we do, why we had one of our biggest corporations, GE, not pay any taxes at all. Bet you can't top that!

    yes, I'm familiar with that GE debacle and its ties with the US President and his political party but in fact the corporate tax rate in Canada is almost half of what is is in the States so with NAFTA in place it's very easy for companies to move up here.

    Canada is doing well right now but if the government tries to do too much spending or the public makes greater and greater demands, I can see it collapsing, just as it has elsewhere. I tend to make conservative investments myself and it's served me well, and I appreciate my government doing the same thing. But once in power, with all that money at their disposal, they get a thrill of excitement they wouldn't otherwise enjoy, and want to right every wrong the world has ever known. That's when the problems begin and reminds us of Lord Acton's warning on power corrupting, which is just as true now as it was when he said it those many years ago. And the political party doesn't matter at all.
    Last edited by Grant; 04-14-11 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I agree - it is logical - which is why a fetus is alive when it has brain life. It just doesn't have a meaningful version of life - according to me. Life isn't particularly meaningful without consciousness.
    We are rapidly reaching the point where people with no power can decide that someone else "doesn't have a meaningful version of life". Now all that's needed is some political power to back that ideology and the show is on once more.

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