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Thread: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Eh...all of the factors around abortion should be considered as well.
    Including 'emotional appeals'?

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Including 'emotional appeals'?
    The point is that we all know life has value, however, stating that life has value is sufficient, going into imagery is not going to really sway someone, unless they have a weak mind, but those people will be swayed by everything and aren't reliable to any position. No more is gained by using imagery than stating "I believe this is life and it has value" because when looking at the information being presented, it is the same. Its just one is presented more cleanly, maturely, and appropriate.

    If someone doesn't believe that a stage of development has the full value of a fully developed human, they are likely not going to react emotionally because they do not have the same attachment to it that a person who does believe those things will. It does not indicate anything other than what belief the person already holds.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-13-11 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The point is that we all know life has value, however, stating that life has value is sufficient, going into imagery is not going to really sway someone, unless they have a weak mind. No more is gained by using imagery than stating "I believe this is life and it has value" because when looking at the information being presented, it is the same. Its just one is presented more cleanly, maturely, and factually.
    But of course it is going to sway people, which is why abortion activists don't want those appeals used. Otherwise why would the pro abortionists care?

    People who have actually witnessed abortion can often be sickened at the sight and do a 180, as can those women who have submitted to an abortion.

    People visiting an abattoir can become vegetarian, those involved in war can become peace activists.

    If we cannot see and understand what is actually happening, how can we make rational judgments, especially on something as important as the taking of a human life?

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The point is that we all know life has value, however, stating that life has value is sufficient, going into imagery is not going to really sway someone, unless they have a weak mind, but those people will be swayed by everything and aren't reliable to any position. No more is gained by using imagery than stating "I believe this is life and it has value" because when looking at the information being presented, it is the same. Its just one is presented more cleanly, maturely, and appropriate.

    If someone doesn't believe that a stage of development has the full value of a fully developed human, they are likely not going to react emotionally because they do not have the same attachment to it that a person who does believe those things will. It does not indicate anything other than what belief the person already holds.
    Yes, we all know that life has value but some human life is more equal than others. Got it!

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But of course it is going to sway people, which is why abortion activists don't want those appeals used. Otherwise why would the pro abortionists care?
    People tend to hate being preached at about anything, especially if they disagree with it. How would you feel if some muslim dude was preaching at you for not praying five times a day? It would be annoying wouldn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    People who have actually witnessed abortion can often be sickened at the sight and do a 180, as can those women who have submitted to an abortion.

    People visiting an abattoir can become vegetarian, those involved in war can become peace activists.

    If we cannot see and understand what is actually happening, how can we make rational judgments, especially on something as important as the taking of a human life?
    This is actually a good point that I will have to think on. Thanks. There may be some interplay between abstract concepts and or ignorance and learning on these types of issues that I had not yet considered.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-13-11 at 02:10 PM.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Including 'emotional appeals'?
    No, not really.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "Pretty similar" is a stretch not worthy of discussion. Best stick to the facts rather than fooling with failed analogies.
    Actually, both lack consciousness which is one of the fundamental things that makes someone "alive" and "human" in the meaningful senses of the words - so it's a pretty good analogy.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But of course it is going to sway people, which is why abortion activists don't want those appeals used. Otherwise why would the pro abortionists care?

    People who have actually witnessed abortion can often be sickened at the sight and do a 180, as can those women who have submitted to an abortion.

    People visiting an abattoir can become vegetarian, those involved in war can become peace activists.

    If we cannot see and understand what is actually happening, how can we make rational judgments, especially on something as important as the taking of a human life?
    It doesn't sway many people. I've watched films on abortions with friends and acquaintances where they show all the gruesome stuff (i.e. pictures of aborted fetuses, videos of an actual abortion).

    In the end, the pro-choice people leave pro-choice and the pro-life people leave pro-life. Maybe your opinions aren't, but many people's opinions on abortion are based on thought and analysis and they can't be moved by a picture, a phrase or descriptions of abortion procedures. Your descriptions and emotional phrases don't do anything but make others assume that you are incapable of anything other than surface analyses of reality.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    People tend to hate being preached at about anything, especially if they disagree with it. How would you feel if some muslim dude was preaching at you for not praying five times a day? It would be annoying wouldn't it?

    Annoying? sure. life threatening? Absolutely not.


    j-mac
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Actually, both lack consciousness which is one of the fundamental things that makes someone "alive" and "human" in the meaningful senses of the words - so it's a pretty good analogy.
    A question....Do you believe it is proper for a person accused of murder of a pregnant woman is also charged with the murder of her unborn child?


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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