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Thread: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    What emotional appeal and straw man?

    The "shredding into bloody pieces of a tiny helpless human being in the womb and sucking them out " is simply a description of an abortion procedure called "Dilation and Curettage" (D&C). It's a fact. How then can you say it's "Nothing but an appeal to emotion and a straw man argument"?

    Susan Smith did not want her two children because her wealthy lover had told her he didn't want a ready made family. As such the children would get in the way of her pursuit of her happiness. She didn't want to give them up to her husband or put them up for adoption for the very same reason abortive women wouldn't. As such, Susan Smith's two children were just as "unwanted" as those unborns you condemned as "unwanted". It's a fact. How then can you say it's "Nothing but an appeal to emotion and a straw man argument"?
    Perhaps it will be rationalized that Susan Smith only had a postnatal abortion.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Funny how in the other thread I started about the UN and 'Mother Earth' it speaks to the earth having 'the right to life' when the same people pushing that for the planet, won't extend that to an unborn child simply because it would be inconvenient to have. Sad, real sad.


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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    What does it matter whether it is or it is not "developed to the point that its autonomic functions". You make things up to suit your fancy agenda.

    From the scientific facr: "A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo)." Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.
    You realize this is not something where there is proof right? Opinions on when this occurs are all over the place

    This is shown the fact that I can find literature that says something different. All depending on what aspects of development we want to look at.

    PERSONHOOD---when does a fetus become a person?

    The focus of this book asking “When is a person?”
    has been on empirical, observable facts.
    The line between personhood and former personhood
    is drawn by looking for the four capacities of persons:
    consciousness, memory, language, & autonomy.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Logical Fallacy: Emotional Appeal

    You know exactly why its emotional appeal and I can assure you it did not make anyone more inclined to accept your conclusion.
    Yes, those photos of the dead children in Darfur, the Jews in Auschwitz, and the starving people in Communist Russia, and other instances of man's inhumanity to man, are only based on "emotional appeal" and should therefore be ignored. Let's hide the reality in order to more easily accept the ends.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    You realize this is not something where there is proof right? Opinions on when this occurs are all over the place

    This is shown the fact that I can find literature that says something different. All depending on what aspects of development we want to look at.

    PERSONHOOD---when does a fetus become a person?
    And you stand grounded on the killing field without any need to prove what you're killing isn't a human being?

    There is no such thing as "personhood". It is another of the pro-abortion people's made up mask to cover up the humanity of the unborn human being. The word "person" was derived from ancient Greek to denote an actor's face mask, nothing more.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Here are some suggestions for you: 1. Learn to follow debates instead of just taking things out of context and then calling the person who made the comment a liar.
    I wasn't taking what you said out of context at all. Someone said a fetus is human your reply was to say that so is a person in an irreversible coma. The notion that you were just saying they are both human with no intended implications beyond that is just an absurd and transparent lie.

    2. Stop using appeals to emotion and dramatic phrases to get your point across because it suggests that you lack the education and intelligence required to actually talk about arguments.
    I don't consider those phrases any more dramatic than the situation itself. In fact, if anything I am being less dramatic than I should. That has nothing to do with getting my point across as I am fully capable of doing so without using such phrases, but I am not going to dehumanize the unborn by always calling them fetuses and referring to their deaths as "termination of a pregnancy" like its advocates. My intention is to call it exactly what it should be called.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Because it is not developed to the point that its autonomic functions can support itself if separated from the womb and there is a lack of a functioning brain. Of course this all depends on which stage of fetus we are talking about.
    Mega, from the very moment of conception you are talking about a human life. There is no dispute that from conception you have a human organism or that from conception you have a living organism that is separate from any other organism. It is indisputably a human life. When it comes to abortion the only real question is whether the unborn should have the same protections under the law as the rest of us.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Perhaps it will be rationalized that Susan Smith only had a postnatal abortion.
    Funny how all those prenatal abortion arguments from pro-abortionists work just as well for postnatal abortion!

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Mega, from the very moment of conception you are talking about a human life. There is no dispute that from conception you have a human organism or that from conception you have a living organism that is separate from any other organism. It is indisputably a human life. When it comes to abortion the only real question is whether the unborn should have the same protections under the law as the rest of us.
    Yeah, I was a bit loose with my terminology, I should have posted viable person. I just noticed that.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, those photos of the dead children in Darfur, the Jews in Auschwitz, and the starving people in Communist Russia, and other instances of man's inhumanity to man, are only based on "emotional appeal" and should therefore be ignored. Let's hide the reality in order to more easily accept the ends.
    It depends on the context. If I show pictures from the holocaust in response to someone saying that US entry into wwii was a complex decision then I would be guilty of emotional appeal.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yeah, I was a bit loose with my terminology, I should have posted viable person. I just noticed that.

    What is a "viable person"?


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